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Attributes | |
ACN | 560237 |
Time | |
Date | 200209 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : msp.airport |
State Reference | MN |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : msp.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A320 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : msp.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Fokker 100 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : takeoff roll |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 21000 flight time type : 4500 |
ASRS Report | 560237 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 225 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 1800 |
ASRS Report | 560235 |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : separated traffic |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
On 3 mi final, msp tower cleared fokker position and hold. 2 mi final runway 30L tower cleared fokker for immediate takeoff. We were landing as he was taking off. Msp tower consistently runs landing aircraft and departing aircraft on same runway too closely. This almost resulted in a go around. Supplemental information from acn 560235: I was the PNF for a major air carrier of an airbus 320. The captain was flying. We were cleared to land in daylight clear VMC conditions. At 2 DME another air carrier was cleared onto the runway for takeoff. We continued approach and touchdown occurred while other aircraft was still on runway and rotating. We agreed not to go around due to our close proximity to the ground. Furthermore, we would have to maneuver around the departing jet. Minneapolis tower controllers routinely do this and it was not a first experience for either of us. I was in a similar situation 2 yrs ago on the DC9 in minneapolis. In that event, however, when we landed we encountered some of the wake from the departing aircraft. This is a major safety issue. It could cause a wingtip upset and strike the ground. Minneapolis tower controllers have been consistently clearing aircraft to land and then clearing another onto the runway for takeoff without adequate separation. It is widely known that this is their practice. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter said the controller conducted a legal operation but said he was not comfortable with the closeness of the operation. He said the controller issued an immediate takeoff to the F100 before the pilots responded. He stated on another occasion in a similar situation, he was required to make a go around from 50 ft. He said there is not much room for error when aircraft get that close.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A LCL CTLR AT MSP CLRED AN F100 OFF RWY 30L WITH AN A320 ON A SHORT FINAL.
Narrative: ON 3 MI FINAL, MSP TWR CLRED FOKKER POS AND HOLD. 2 MI FINAL RWY 30L TWR CLRED FOKKER FOR IMMEDIATE TKOF. WE WERE LNDG AS HE WAS TAKING OFF. MSP TWR CONSISTENTLY RUNS LNDG ACFT AND DEPARTING ACFT ON SAME RWY TOO CLOSELY. THIS ALMOST RESULTED IN A GAR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 560235: I WAS THE PNF FOR A MAJOR ACR OF AN AIRBUS 320. THE CAPT WAS FLYING. WE WERE CLRED TO LAND IN DAYLIGHT CLR VMC CONDITIONS. AT 2 DME ANOTHER ACR WAS CLRED ONTO THE RWY FOR TKOF. WE CONTINUED APCH AND TOUCHDOWN OCCURRED WHILE OTHER ACFT WAS STILL ON RWY AND ROTATING. WE AGREED NOT TO GO AROUND DUE TO OUR CLOSE PROX TO THE GND. FURTHERMORE, WE WOULD HAVE TO MANEUVER AROUND THE DEPARTING JET. MINNEAPOLIS TWR CTLRS ROUTINELY DO THIS AND IT WAS NOT A FIRST EXPERIENCE FOR EITHER OF US. I WAS IN A SIMILAR SIT 2 YRS AGO ON THE DC9 IN MINNEAPOLIS. IN THAT EVENT, HOWEVER, WHEN WE LANDED WE ENCOUNTERED SOME OF THE WAKE FROM THE DEPARTING ACFT. THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE. IT COULD CAUSE A WINGTIP UPSET AND STRIKE THE GND. MINNEAPOLIS TWR CTLRS HAVE BEEN CONSISTENTLY CLRING ACFT TO LAND AND THEN CLRING ANOTHER ONTO THE RWY FOR TKOF WITHOUT ADEQUATE SEPARATION. IT IS WIDELY KNOWN THAT THIS IS THEIR PRACTICE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR SAID THE CTLR CONDUCTED A LEGAL OP BUT SAID HE WAS NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE CLOSENESS OF THE OP. HE SAID THE CTLR ISSUED AN IMMEDIATE TKOF TO THE F100 BEFORE THE PLTS RESPONDED. HE STATED ON ANOTHER OCCASION IN A SIMILAR SIT, HE WAS REQUIRED TO MAKE A GAR FROM 50 FT. HE SAID THERE IS NOT MUCH ROOM FOR ERROR WHEN ACFT GET THAT CLOSE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.