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An FAA safety inspector travelling as a passenger, informs an air carrier flight crew that the aircraft was not clear of the landing runway when ATC allowed another aircraft to take off.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 563904 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200208 |
| Day | Thu |
| Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : slc.airport |
| State Reference | UT |
| Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | MD-90 Series (DC-9-90) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | ground : holding |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tower : slc.tower |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Flight Phase | ground : takeoff roll |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : private pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 450 flight time total : 7300 flight time type : 1793 |
| ASRS Report | 563904 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 75 flight time total : 9000 flight time type : 3000 |
| ASRS Report | 564180 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb other other : 3 |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew Other |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Passenger Human Performance ATC Human Performance FAA |
| Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
Approach and landing uneventful. Taxied off at second high speed taxiway and contacted ground control. Ground control said to stop, so we stopped on the high speed. Ground then cleared us to taxi to the gate. We did so. Upon passenger deplaning, 1 passenger introduced himself as an FAA safety inspector and that, as a passenger sitting in coach, he noted that tower had cleared an aircraft for takeoff 'while our tail was hanging out over the runway.' he said tower had erred in clearing someone for takeoff while we were not completely clear of the runway (since ground had told us to stop). It appeared to me that our tail would have been clear, and I don't think that ground would have told us to stop had our tail been hanging over the active runway. The FAA guy seemed convinced that our tail was 'hanging out there' and that tower should not have cleared anyone for takeoff until we had time (and clearance from ground) to clear the runway. The FAA guy said he would 'take care of the tower guys,' and that it was their mistake. Quite frankly, I don't see how the FAA guy in coach could determine the actual location of our tail -- the high speed taxiway is long enough to clear the runway for our aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR TRAVELLING AS A PAX, INFORMS AN ACR FLC THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT CLR OF THE LNDG RWY WHEN ATC ALLOWED ANOTHER ACFT TO TAKE OFF.
Narrative: APCH AND LNDG UNEVENTFUL. TAXIED OFF AT SECOND HIGH SPD TXWY AND CONTACTED GND CTL. GND CTL SAID TO STOP, SO WE STOPPED ON THE HIGH SPD. GND THEN CLRED US TO TAXI TO THE GATE. WE DID SO. UPON PAX DEPLANING, 1 PAX INTRODUCED HIMSELF AS AN FAA SAFETY INSPECTOR AND THAT, AS A PAX SITTING IN COACH, HE NOTED THAT TWR HAD CLRED AN ACFT FOR TKOF 'WHILE OUR TAIL WAS HANGING OUT OVER THE RWY.' HE SAID TWR HAD ERRED IN CLRING SOMEONE FOR TKOF WHILE WE WERE NOT COMPLETELY CLR OF THE RWY (SINCE GND HAD TOLD US TO STOP). IT APPEARED TO ME THAT OUR TAIL WOULD HAVE BEEN CLR, AND I DON'T THINK THAT GND WOULD HAVE TOLD US TO STOP HAD OUR TAIL BEEN HANGING OVER THE ACTIVE RWY. THE FAA GUY SEEMED CONVINCED THAT OUR TAIL WAS 'HANGING OUT THERE' AND THAT TWR SHOULD NOT HAVE CLRED ANYONE FOR TKOF UNTIL WE HAD TIME (AND CLRNC FROM GND) TO CLR THE RWY. THE FAA GUY SAID HE WOULD 'TAKE CARE OF THE TWR GUYS,' AND THAT IT WAS THEIR MISTAKE. QUITE FRANKLY, I DON'T SEE HOW THE FAA GUY IN COACH COULD DETERMINE THE ACTUAL LOCATION OF OUR TAIL -- THE HIGH SPD TXWY IS LONG ENOUGH TO CLR THE RWY FOR OUR ACFT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.