37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 572834 |
Time | |
Date | 200302 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon tower : dfw.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 31r other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon tower : dfw.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Fokker BV Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 31r other vortac |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 17500 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 572834 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : d10.tracon |
Chart | approach : stadium visual rwy 31r |
Narrative:
Dallas ft worth approach control (regional approach) is notorious for not telling crews what runway to expect until the last min. ATIS listed visuals to runway 31R, 35C, 35R, 36L. We usually get runway 35C, so we guessed, and briefed a visual approach for runway 35C and set up all back-up frequencys and bug settings. At around 15 miles from the airport, we were told to come to 360 degree heading, intercept the localizer for runway 31R and look for a fokker aircraft to follow for a stadium visual runway 31R. We were also told to slow. At this stage, it was all heads down trying to set up, find visual approach procedure, slow, change frequencys and then look for the fokker. We intercepted and tracked the localizer on runway 31R. Couldn't find the fokker, but called field in sight. We were told to hold 3000 until abeam love field, cleared stadium visual runway 31R. We remained on the localizer and then realized ATC wanted us to leave the localizer, fly over the stadium then return to the localizer. ATC did not make this clear. They first put us on the localizer then didn't tell us to go to the stadium and later return to the localizer. The problem was that since we didn't fly over the stadium, we were extremely close spacing on the fokker, when we finally spotted it visually. Controller never switched us to tower, but when we finally switched on our own, tower was upset that we hadn't deviated over the stadium and were too close to the fokker. Here's where regional approach erred: 1) didn't put stadium visual approach on the ATIS 2) didn't give it to us early enough to review it and brief it and set up frequencys and bugs 3) when they did give us the stadium visual, it included the requirement that we intercept the localizer runway 31R. This is not the way it is depicted. The depiction calls for pilots to fly to the stadium (which is off to the right of the localizer) and after crossing the stadium at or above 3000 ft, you are to continue to a golf course and then turn left and join the localizer runway 31R. 3) approach never handed us off to tower and since tower has 2 different frequencys, you don't know which one to use. I chose the wrong one, and by that time, we were scrambling to perform the landing checklist, get landing clearance, sweating a go around due to extremely tight spacing on the fokker on the runway. Dfw regional approach and dfw tower consistently are difficult to work with and won't plan ahead and cause anger, frustration and unsafe conditions. Any air carrier crew will tell you that they hate passing through dfw because of the high likelihood of bad handling and confusing procedures, both in flight and on ground control, and then get angry and scold the flight crew. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter wished to express his dismay at runway approach changes within twenty miles of dfw. The pilot stated that FMS corrections take a considerable amount of time, which he believes that controllers are not factoring into the time and compliance perception when issuing 'close in' approach change clrncs. The reporter advised that with an ATIS which alerts to a possible six runway configurations, it becomes all but impossible for flight crew to complete required FAA and company checklist briefings in a timely manner prior to final approach course interception. The reporter advised that this constant problem is causing increasing friction between the pilots and the controllers.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: APPROX FIFTEEN MILES FROM DFW, B757 RECEIVES AN UNPLANNED VISUAL APCH CLRNC, CAUSING COCKPIT DISTRS AND LATE FREQ CHANGES.
Narrative: DALLAS FT WORTH APCH CTL (REGIONAL APCH) IS NOTORIOUS FOR NOT TELLING CREWS WHAT RWY TO EXPECT UNTIL THE LAST MIN. ATIS LISTED VISUALS TO RWY 31R, 35C, 35R, 36L. WE USUALLY GET RWY 35C, SO WE GUESSED, AND BRIEFED A VISUAL APCH FOR RWY 35C AND SET UP ALL BACK-UP FREQS AND BUG SETTINGS. AT AROUND 15 MILES FROM THE ARPT, WE WERE TOLD TO COME TO 360 DEG HEADING, INTERCEPT THE LOCALIZER FOR RWY 31R AND LOOK FOR A FOKKER ACFT TO FOLLOW FOR A STADIUM VISUAL RWY 31R. WE WERE ALSO TOLD TO SLOW. AT THIS STAGE, IT WAS ALL HEADS DOWN TRYING TO SET UP, FIND VISUAL APCH PROC, SLOW, CHANGE FREQS AND THEN LOOK FOR THE FOKKER. WE INTERCEPTED AND TRACKED THE LOC ON RWY 31R. COULDN'T FIND THE FOKKER, BUT CALLED FIELD IN SIGHT. WE WERE TOLD TO HOLD 3000 UNTIL ABEAM LOVE FIELD, CLRED STADIUM VISUAL RWY 31R. WE REMAINED ON THE LOC AND THEN REALIZED ATC WANTED US TO LEAVE THE LOC, FLY OVER THE STADIUM THEN RETURN TO THE LOC. ATC DID NOT MAKE THIS CLR. THEY FIRST PUT US ON THE LOC THEN DIDN'T TELL US TO GO TO THE STADIUM AND LATER RETURN TO THE LOC. THE PROB WAS THAT SINCE WE DIDN'T FLY OVER THE STADIUM, WE WERE EXTREMELY CLOSE SPACING ON THE FOKKER, WHEN WE FINALLY SPOTTED IT VISUALLY. CTLR NEVER SWITCHED US TO TWR, BUT WHEN WE FINALLY SWITCHED ON OUR OWN, TWR WAS UPSET THAT WE HADN'T DEVIATED OVER THE STADIUM AND WERE TOO CLOSE TO THE FOKKER. HERE'S WHERE REGIONAL APCH ERRED: 1) DIDN'T PUT STADIUM VISUAL APCH ON THE ATIS 2) DIDN'T GIVE IT TO US EARLY ENOUGH TO REVIEW IT AND BRIEF IT AND SET UP FREQS AND BUGS 3) WHEN THEY DID GIVE US THE STADIUM VISUAL, IT INCLUDED THE REQUIREMENT THAT WE INTERCEPT THE LOC RWY 31R. THIS IS NOT THE WAY IT IS DEPICTED. THE DEPICTION CALLS FOR PLTS TO FLY TO THE STADIUM (WHICH IS OFF TO THE RIGHT OF THE LOC) AND AFTER XING THE STADIUM AT OR ABOVE 3000 FT, YOU ARE TO CONTINUE TO A GOLF COURSE AND THEN TURN L AND JOIN THE LOC RWY 31R. 3) APCH NEVER HANDED US OFF TO TWR AND SINCE TWR HAS 2 DIFFERENT FREQS, YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE TO USE. I CHOSE THE WRONG ONE, AND BY THAT TIME, WE WERE SCRAMBLING TO PERFORM THE LNDG CHKLIST, GET LNDG CLRNC, SWEATING A GAR DUE TO EXTREMELY TIGHT SPACING ON THE FOKKER ON THE RWY. DFW REGIONAL APCH AND DFW TWR CONSISTENTLY ARE DIFFICULT TO WORK WITH AND WON'T PLAN AHEAD AND CAUSE ANGER, FRUSTRATION AND UNSAFE CONDITIONS. ANY ACR CREW WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY HATE PASSING THROUGH DFW BECAUSE OF THE HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF BAD HANDLING AND CONFUSING PROCS, BOTH IN FLT AND ON GND CTL, AND THEN GET ANGRY AND SCOLD THE FLC. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR WISHED TO EXPRESS HIS DISMAY AT RWY APCH CHANGES WITHIN TWENTY MILES OF DFW. THE PLT STATED THAT FMS CORRECTIONS TAKE A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME, WHICH HE BELIEVES THAT CTLRS ARE NOT FACTORING INTO THE TIME AND COMPLIANCE PERCEPTION WHEN ISSUING 'CLOSE IN' APCH CHANGE CLRNCS. THE RPTR ADVISED THAT WITH AN ATIS WHICH ALERTS TO A POSSIBLE SIX RWY CONFIGURATIONS, IT BECOMES ALL BUT IMPOSSIBLE FOR FLC TO COMPLETE REQUIRED FAA AND COMPANY CHKLIST BRIEFINGS IN A TIMELY MANNER PRIOR TO FINAL APCH COURSE INTERCEPTION. THE RPTR ADVISED THAT THIS CONSTANT PROB IS CAUSING INCREASING FRICTION BTWN THE PLTS AND THE CTLRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.