Departing dvt, BE9T flight crew penetrate sdl class D airspace waiting for a P50 class B clearance. ...

Attributes
ACN	573660
Time
Date	200302
Day	Sun
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : dvt.airport
State Reference	AZ
Altitude	msl single value : 3700
Environment
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tracon : p50.tracon tower : dvt.tower
Operator	general aviation : personal
Make Model Name	Beech F90
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 91
Flight Phase	climbout : intermediate altitude
Flight Plan	None
Person 1
Affiliation	other
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : multi engine pilot : atp pilot : cfi
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 40 flight time total : 5200 flight time type : 120
ASRS Report	573660
Person 2
Affiliation	other
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	airspace violation : entry non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	controller : issued new clearance flight crew : exited penetrated airspace flight crew : took precautionary avoidance action
Supplementary
Problem Areas	FAA Flight Crew Human Performance Environmental Factor ATC Human Performance Airspace Structure
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	Pilot Deviation
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : p50.tracon
Airspace Structure	class b : phx.b class d : sdl.d class e : p50.e

Narrative:

We took off from dvt airport for a flight to tus which would take us through the class B airspace of phoenix. Dvt gave us a frequency change approval and we immediately tried to contact phx approach control. We did not get a response even though we heard them talking to other aircraft. We waited a bit and tried to contact them again and still did not get a response. The third attempt was replied to with a 'stand by' response. By this time we were getting close to the 4000 ft area of the class B so I had to maintain 3700 ft MSL and began to circle while we waited for approach control to get back to us. During this circling we may have entered sdl class D airspace and also went back into the dvt class D airspace without talking to either one. After 2 circles, phx approach control finally got back to us and gave us a class B clearance. The flight through the class B airspace was uneventful and nothing was said about any airspace violations. The airspace just south of dvt is very tight with the class D of dvt and sdl and phoenix class B leaving very little space for maneuvering. Phx approach control does not cooperate well with VFR (or IFR for that matter) traffic and has a very adversarial and hostile relationship with most everyone. They refuse to give a transponder code for VFR traffic departing dvt while on the ground at dvt to facilitate a timely contact with approach control and routinely refuse to allow VFR traffic into the class B airspace at all. IFR traffic into phoenix satellite airports are canceling IFR early and maneuvering to remain clear of class B airspace because of the extensive vectoring given for the arrs into satellite airports. IFR traffic departing phoenix satellite airports are departing VFR and picking up their IFR clrncs from ZAB because of the extensive vectoring when departing. This is causing a safety issue because of the terrain around phoenix. The IFR system should encourage people to work with them rather than discourage them.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DEPARTING DVT, BE9T FLT CREW PENETRATE SDL CLASS D AIRSPACE WAITING FOR A P50 CLASS B CLRNC. PLT ALLEGES ADVERSE CONDITIONS EXIST BTWN P50 AND PLTS LNDG AT PHOENIX SATELLITE ARPTS.

Narrative: WE TOOK OFF FROM DVT ARPT FOR A FLT TO TUS WHICH WOULD TAKE US THROUGH THE CLASS B AIRSPACE OF PHOENIX. DVT GAVE US A FREQ CHANGE APPROVAL AND WE IMMEDIATELY TRIED TO CONTACT PHX APCH CTL. WE DID NOT GET A RESPONSE EVEN THOUGH WE HEARD THEM TALKING TO OTHER ACFT. WE WAITED A BIT AND TRIED TO CONTACT THEM AGAIN AND STILL DID NOT GET A RESPONSE. THE THIRD ATTEMPT WAS REPLIED TO WITH A 'STAND BY' RESPONSE. BY THIS TIME WE WERE GETTING CLOSE TO THE 4000 FT AREA OF THE CLASS B SO I HAD TO MAINTAIN 3700 FT MSL AND BEGAN TO CIRCLE WHILE WE WAITED FOR APCH CTL TO GET BACK TO US. DURING THIS CIRCLING WE MAY HAVE ENTERED SDL CLASS D AIRSPACE AND ALSO WENT BACK INTO THE DVT CLASS D AIRSPACE WITHOUT TALKING TO EITHER ONE. AFTER 2 CIRCLES, PHX APCH CTL FINALLY GOT BACK TO US AND GAVE US A CLASS B CLRNC. THE FLT THROUGH THE CLASS B AIRSPACE WAS UNEVENTFUL AND NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT ANY AIRSPACE VIOLATIONS. THE AIRSPACE JUST S OF DVT IS VERY TIGHT WITH THE CLASS D OF DVT AND SDL AND PHOENIX CLASS B LEAVING VERY LITTLE SPACE FOR MANEUVERING. PHX APCH CTL DOES NOT COOPERATE WELL WITH VFR (OR IFR FOR THAT MATTER) TFC AND HAS A VERY ADVERSARIAL AND HOSTILE RELATIONSHIP WITH MOST EVERYONE. THEY REFUSE TO GIVE A XPONDER CODE FOR VFR TFC DEPARTING DVT WHILE ON THE GND AT DVT TO FACILITATE A TIMELY CONTACT WITH APCH CTL AND ROUTINELY REFUSE TO ALLOW VFR TFC INTO THE CLASS B AIRSPACE AT ALL. IFR TFC INTO PHOENIX SATELLITE ARPTS ARE CANCELING IFR EARLY AND MANEUVERING TO REMAIN CLR OF CLASS B AIRSPACE BECAUSE OF THE EXTENSIVE VECTORING GIVEN FOR THE ARRS INTO SATELLITE ARPTS. IFR TFC DEPARTING PHOENIX SATELLITE ARPTS ARE DEPARTING VFR AND PICKING UP THEIR IFR CLRNCS FROM ZAB BECAUSE OF THE EXTENSIVE VECTORING WHEN DEPARTING. THIS IS CAUSING A SAFETY ISSUE BECAUSE OF THE TERRAIN AROUND PHOENIX. THE IFR SYS SHOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO WORK WITH THEM RATHER THAN DISCOURAGE THEM.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

Departing dvt, BE9T flight crew penetrate sdl class D airspace waiting for a P50 class B clearance. Pilot alleges adverse conditions exist between P50 and pilots landing at phoenix satellite airports.