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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 575593 |
Time | |
Date | 200302 |
Day | Thu |
Place | |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 35000 msl bound upper : 37000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : charter |
Make Model Name | BAe 125 Series 800 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zla.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B747 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : level |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : charter |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 7300 flight time type : 350 |
ASRS Report | 575593 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : charter |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne critical non adherence : company policies non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure non adherence other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance flight crew : took evasive action other |
Consequence | other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance FAA Company Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
At level cruise, fl 350, TCAS RA alerted 'traffic' 'descend' while ZLA center almost simultaneously issued a climb to fl 370 and a left turn to 250 degree. We complied with the ATC instructions over the TCAS RA and executed the climbing left turn. The traffic was visually acquired and was a descending B747 closing fast. Upon reaching assigned heading and altitude ZLA center queried us 'hawker 800 are you at fl 370?' which concerned us as to whether we received the correct instructions from ATC. The B747 passed approximately 500 ft below us. ATC then thanked us for our help. We then requested our original altitude and direct ave which we received. Our concern as previously stated, did the controller give the correct aircraft the climb, when our TCAS RA said 'descend', and if our TCAS RA said 'descend' did the B747's TCAS say 'climb', thereby having two aircraft climbing into each other? Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the captain was a retired air carrier pilot, who had extensive TCAS training at the air carrier. His current employer has little if any TCAS training. The captain reports that he has never had a high altitude training experience with a TCAS RA in the simulator. In fact getting to high altitude almost never occurs in the simulator. The reporter said the TCAS RA and the controllers instructions were issued almost simultaneously. He said the B747 was descending from fl 390 for an lax arrival. He is aware of coordinated TCAS RA's, but reacted to the controller instruction, rather than following TCAS RA guidance. He realizes this was a mistake. He wishes that his simulator training required high altitude TCAS maneuvers.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: H25B CREW AND A B747 HAD LESS THAN LEGAL SEPARATION IN ZLA CLASS A. THE HAWKER 800 CREW DID NOT FOLLOW TCAS RA GUIDANCE.
Narrative: AT LEVEL CRUISE, FL 350, TCAS RA ALERTED 'TFC' 'DSND' WHILE ZLA CENTER ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY ISSUED A CLB TO FL 370 AND A LEFT TURN TO 250 DEG. WE COMPLIED WITH THE ATC INSTRUCTIONS OVER THE TCAS RA AND EXECUTED THE CLBING L TURN. THE TFC WAS VISUALLY ACQUIRED AND WAS A DSNDING B747 CLOSING FAST. UPON REACHING ASSIGNED HEADING AND ALT ZLA CENTER QUERIED US 'HAWKER 800 ARE YOU AT FL 370?' WHICH CONCERNED US AS TO WHETHER WE RECEIVED THE CORRECT INSTRUCTIONS FROM ATC. THE B747 PASSED APPROX 500 FT BELOW US. ATC THEN THANKED US FOR OUR HELP. WE THEN REQUESTED OUR ORIGINAL ALT AND DIRECT AVE WHICH WE RECEIVED. OUR CONCERN AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, DID THE CTLR GIVE THE CORRECT ACFT THE CLB, WHEN OUR TCAS RA SAID 'DSND', AND IF OUR TCAS RA SAID 'DSND' DID THE B747'S TCAS SAY 'CLB', THEREBY HAVING TWO ACFT CLBING INTO EACH OTHER? CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE CAPT WAS A RETIRED ACR PLT, WHO HAD EXTENSIVE TCAS TRAINING AT THE ACR. HIS CURRENT EMPLOYER HAS LITTLE IF ANY TCAS TRAINING. THE CAPT RPTS THAT HE HAS NEVER HAD A HIGH ALT TRAINING EXPERIENCE WITH A TCAS RA IN THE SIMULATOR. IN FACT GETTING TO HIGH ALT ALMOST NEVER OCCURS IN THE SIMULATOR. THE RPTR SAID THE TCAS RA AND THE CTLRS INSTRUCTIONS WERE ISSUED ALMOST SIMULTANEOUSLY. HE SAID THE B747 WAS DSNDING FROM FL 390 FOR AN LAX ARR. HE IS AWARE OF COORDINATED TCAS RA'S, BUT REACTED TO THE CTLR INSTRUCTION, RATHER THAN FOLLOWING TCAS RA GUIDANCE. HE REALIZES THIS WAS A MISTAKE. HE WISHES THAT HIS SIMULATOR TRAINING REQUIRED HIGH ALT TCAS MANEUVERS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.