37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 575730 |
Time | |
Date | 200302 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : rno.airport |
State Reference | NV |
Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : rno.tracon |
Operator | other |
Make Model Name | Hercules (C-130) |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 16r |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : reno3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | government : military |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : private pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 600 flight time type : 400 |
ASRS Report | 575730 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : military |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew faa : investigated faa : assigned or threatened penalties |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Situations | |
Chart | sid : reno 3 |
Narrative:
During my pre-mission planning, I filed the mustang 6 departure out of reno/tahoe international. Prior to engine start, the aircraft commander discussed the departure with the crew. Within this briefing, a 3 DME left turn was briefed. After I received the clearance, I briefed the crew that the flight plan was amended by clearance delivery to fly the reno 3 departure. The aircraft commander then discussed the details of the reno 3 with the crew. Both the pilot and myself noted that there was a difference with the 2 departures. Specifically, the reno 3 did not have a left turn to fmg VORTAC at 3 DME, as did the mustang 6. Both the pilot and myself scanned the departure and noted that at the bottom of the page were directions for runways 16L/right departures. We also noticed on the pictorial that there was a 10000 ft and above restr before a turn could be made. Because of the note at the top right corner of the SID, an assumption was made that the lost communication, 10000 ft restr applied to the runways 16L/right departure instructions during IMC only. The note states 'lost communications are applicable in IMC only. If communications are lost in VMC, maintain VFR and land as soon as possible.' a consensus was made as far as the intent of the SID, and we decided to depart. After takeoff, the pilot climbed at 4-ENG climb speed to insure obstacle clearance, and when above 10000 ft, the PF turned the aircraft direct to the fmg VORTAC. After the completion of the turn, the departure controller informed us that we were supposed to fly the localizer course until vectored on course. I apologized for the misinterp, and we were then handed off to ZOA. After checking in with ZOA, we were told to contact the TRACON after landing. After landing, a wing member called reno. The wing member informed the crew that rno had issued a flight violation. (The wing member also stated that rno was going to retract the violation, because many other people have made the same mistake in the past. The TRACON simply wanted to use the violation as evidence that the SID needs to be changed.) the reno 3 departure also has a lot of information printed on the SID that is usually found on NOTAMS. It is my opinion that this departure is very easy to misinterp. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter advised that a military internal review process was conducted. The review process concluded that the existing reno SID needs significant modifications to resolve confusion factors and components.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MIL PLT NOTIFIED OF RNO SID RTE DEV AFTER DEP. RNO ADVISED THEY WOULD NOT PROCESS THE VIOLATION, BUT USE IT AS FURTHER EVIDENCE OF THE NEED TO CHANGE THE SID.
Narrative: DURING MY PRE-MISSION PLANNING, I FILED THE MUSTANG 6 DEP OUT OF RENO/TAHOE INTERNATIONAL. PRIOR TO ENG START, THE ACFT COMMANDER DISCUSSED THE DEP WITH THE CREW. WITHIN THIS BRIEFING, A 3 DME L TURN WAS BRIEFED. AFTER I RECEIVED THE CLRNC, I BRIEFED THE CREW THAT THE FLT PLAN WAS AMENDED BY CLRNC DELIVERY TO FLY THE RENO 3 DEP. THE ACFT COMMANDER THEN DISCUSSED THE DETAILS OF THE RENO 3 WITH THE CREW. BOTH THE PLT AND MYSELF NOTED THAT THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE WITH THE 2 DEPS. SPECIFICALLY, THE RENO 3 DID NOT HAVE A L TURN TO FMG VORTAC AT 3 DME, AS DID THE MUSTANG 6. BOTH THE PLT AND MYSELF SCANNED THE DEP AND NOTED THAT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE WERE DIRECTIONS FOR RWYS 16L/R DEPS. WE ALSO NOTICED ON THE PICTORIAL THAT THERE WAS A 10000 FT AND ABOVE RESTR BEFORE A TURN COULD BE MADE. BECAUSE OF THE NOTE AT THE TOP R CORNER OF THE SID, AN ASSUMPTION WAS MADE THAT THE LOST COM, 10000 FT RESTR APPLIED TO THE RWYS 16L/R DEP INSTRUCTIONS DURING IMC ONLY. THE NOTE STATES 'LOST COMS ARE APPLICABLE IN IMC ONLY. IF COMS ARE LOST IN VMC, MAINTAIN VFR AND LAND AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.' A CONSENSUS WAS MADE AS FAR AS THE INTENT OF THE SID, AND WE DECIDED TO DEPART. AFTER TKOF, THE PLT CLBED AT 4-ENG CLB SPD TO INSURE OBSTACLE CLRNC, AND WHEN ABOVE 10000 FT, THE PF TURNED THE ACFT DIRECT TO THE FMG VORTAC. AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE TURN, THE DEP CTLR INFORMED US THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO FLY THE LOC COURSE UNTIL VECTORED ON COURSE. I APOLOGIZED FOR THE MISINTERP, AND WE WERE THEN HANDED OFF TO ZOA. AFTER CHKING IN WITH ZOA, WE WERE TOLD TO CONTACT THE TRACON AFTER LNDG. AFTER LNDG, A WING MEMBER CALLED RENO. THE WING MEMBER INFORMED THE CREW THAT RNO HAD ISSUED A FLT VIOLATION. (THE WING MEMBER ALSO STATED THAT RNO WAS GOING TO RETRACT THE VIOLATION, BECAUSE MANY OTHER PEOPLE HAVE MADE THE SAME MISTAKE IN THE PAST. THE TRACON SIMPLY WANTED TO USE THE VIOLATION AS EVIDENCE THAT THE SID NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.) THE RENO 3 DEP ALSO HAS A LOT OF INFO PRINTED ON THE SID THAT IS USUALLY FOUND ON NOTAMS. IT IS MY OPINION THAT THIS DEP IS VERY EASY TO MISINTERP. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR ADVISED THAT A MIL INTERNAL REVIEW PROCESS WAS CONDUCTED. THE REVIEW PROCESS CONCLUDED THAT THE EXISTING RENO SID NEEDS SIGNIFICANT MODIFICATIONS TO RESOLVE CONFUSION FACTORS AND COMPONENTS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.