37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 584673 |
Time | |
Date | 200306 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ont.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : sct.tracon tower : dca.tower |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Falcon 20FJF/20C/20D/20E/20F |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure sid : pomona |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 40 flight time total : 8300 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 584623 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance controller : issued advisory flight crew : returned to assigned altitude |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
On jun/wed/03, we departed ont at approximately XA05PM with the following clearance: 'cleared to vcb via pomona 6 departure, shafter transition, as filed, maintain 5000 ft, expect FL350 in 10 mi squawk code XXXX.' upon reaching about 4000 ft we were cleared to 14000 ft so we continued the climb. At approximately 9000 ft, the controller came back on and said maintain 8000 ft you are supposed to cross pom (pomona VOR) at 8000 ft or below. So we went back down to 8000 ft to cross the VOR at 8000 ft. The controller then said comply with the pomona 6 departure, climb and maintain 14000 ft. Then told us once again to climb to and maintain 14000 ft, like he or she was trying to confuse us. He or she did! By now, we are not knowing exactly what he or she wants. I have been flying for 18 yrs and have over 8000 hours and have never heard such a confusing clearance. When given a climb to and maintain clearance (to 14000 ft) this supercedes the written SID as far as I know. That is how I have been doing it for 18 yrs. This controller should know better than to issue a clearance contrary to published SID if he/she doesn't want the aircraft to follow it. The clearance should have been, climb and maintain 14000 ft cross the pomona VOR at or below 8000 ft. We know the SID says to cross the pom VOR at or below 8000 ft but we were cleared higher, prior to reaching pom.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FA20 DEP FROM ONT IS CONFUSED WITH ATC ALT CLRNC.
Narrative: ON JUN/WED/03, WE DEPARTED ONT AT APPROX XA05PM WITH THE FOLLOWING CLRNC: 'CLRED TO VCB VIA POMONA 6 DEP, SHAFTER TRANSITION, AS FILED, MAINTAIN 5000 FT, EXPECT FL350 IN 10 MI SQUAWK CODE XXXX.' UPON REACHING ABOUT 4000 FT WE WERE CLRED TO 14000 FT SO WE CONTINUED THE CLB. AT APPROX 9000 FT, THE CTLR CAME BACK ON AND SAID MAINTAIN 8000 FT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO CROSS POM (POMONA VOR) AT 8000 FT OR BELOW. SO WE WENT BACK DOWN TO 8000 FT TO CROSS THE VOR AT 8000 FT. THE CTLR THEN SAID COMPLY WITH THE POMONA 6 DEP, CLB AND MAINTAIN 14000 FT. THEN TOLD US ONCE AGAIN TO CLB TO AND MAINTAIN 14000 FT, LIKE HE OR SHE WAS TRYING TO CONFUSE US. HE OR SHE DID! BY NOW, WE ARE NOT KNOWING EXACTLY WHAT HE OR SHE WANTS. I HAVE BEEN FLYING FOR 18 YRS AND HAVE OVER 8000 HRS AND HAVE NEVER HEARD SUCH A CONFUSING CLRNC. WHEN GIVEN A CLB TO AND MAINTAIN CLRNC (TO 14000 FT) THIS SUPERCEDES THE WRITTEN SID AS FAR AS I KNOW. THAT IS HOW I HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR 18 YRS. THIS CTLR SHOULD KNOW BETTER THAN TO ISSUE A CLRNC CONTRARY TO PUBLISHED SID IF HE/SHE DOESN'T WANT THE ACFT TO FOLLOW IT. THE CLRNC SHOULD HAVE BEEN, CLB AND MAINTAIN 14000 FT CROSS THE POMONA VOR AT OR BELOW 8000 FT. WE KNOW THE SID SAYS TO CROSS THE POM VOR AT OR BELOW 8000 FT BUT WE WERE CLRED HIGHER, PRIOR TO REACHING POM.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.