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Attributes | |
ACN | 585102 |
Time | |
Date | 200306 |
Day | Sun |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | landing : roll |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-90 Series (DC-9-90) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : taxi |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 585102 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground critical incursion : taxiway incursion : runway non adherence : published procedure non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa other flight crewb other other : 3 |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
We were rolling out on runway 18R with the displaced threshold and we were not asked to hold short and no lahso in progress and were just under 120 KTS IAS when tower cleared air carrier Y to cross runway 18R at alpha. In this scenario I so far have always been asked if I was going to exit at or by a certain taxiway and then upon my affirming, traffic would be cleared to cross. At our speed and location when tower cleared air carrier Y to cross, it surprised both of us. In my opinion if I was air carrier Y I most likely would have asked tower to confirm air carrier X stopping or delayed my crossing till I was sure. We got on the brakes a little more than normal to make the high speed turnoff that becomes bravo taxiway. E6 I believe it is named. I talked to a person at dfw tower and she told me something new. That tower can, based on their judgement and previous aircraft lndgs, clear planes to cross downfield like this. I told her this today was potentially dangerous and that we had to make sure we exited so as not to run into air carrier Y. We did not jam on the brakes, but we could have easily elected to exit at alpha where air carrier Y was crossing. It is our runway until we are through landing. I felt tower should have asked us if we had the last high speed before clearing air carrier Y to cross. Also this is a departure from normal to me in my past experiences with this crossing area. Many times I have been in reversed roles and we were not cleared to cross when much more time was available. If this is true that tower can use their judgement here, then today was bordering on unsafe. As I said it startled both me and the first officer. It also appeared to us that crossing the traffic was priority over our exiting being assured. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter stated that while on landing roll at approximately 120 KTS, he observed an MD90 aircraft crossing the runway at taxiway a. He said both he and the first officer were on the brakes and with a great deal of effort were able to turn off on taxiway E6. In a discussion with the tower supervisor, he was told for yrs dfw has had a procedure that controllers, based on their judgement and previous aircraft lndgs, could clear aircraft to cross an occupied runway downfield. The supervisor also stated controllers use the amass equipment to determine the landing aircraft's speed. The pilot was asked by the supervisor what he would have liked the controller to do. Reporter said he would like to be asked by the controller if he could make a particular turnoff.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DFW LCL CTLR CLRS MD90 TO CROSS RWY 18R WHILE MD80 CREW IS ON LNDG ROLL AT 120 KTS AND ON THE BRAKES.
Narrative: WE WERE ROLLING OUT ON RWY 18R WITH THE DISPLACED THRESHOLD AND WE WERE NOT ASKED TO HOLD SHORT AND NO LAHSO IN PROGRESS AND WERE JUST UNDER 120 KTS IAS WHEN TWR CLRED ACR Y TO CROSS RWY 18R AT ALPHA. IN THIS SCENARIO I SO FAR HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ASKED IF I WAS GOING TO EXIT AT OR BY A CERTAIN TXWY AND THEN UPON MY AFFIRMING, TFC WOULD BE CLRED TO CROSS. AT OUR SPEED AND LOCATION WHEN TWR CLRED ACR Y TO CROSS, IT SURPRISED BOTH OF US. IN MY OPINION IF I WAS ACR Y I MOST LIKELY WOULD HAVE ASKED TWR TO CONFIRM ACR X STOPPING OR DELAYED MY XING TILL I WAS SURE. WE GOT ON THE BRAKES A LITTLE MORE THAN NORMAL TO MAKE THE HIGH SPEED TURNOFF THAT BECOMES BRAVO TXWY. E6 I BELIEVE IT IS NAMED. I TALKED TO A PERSON AT DFW TWR AND SHE TOLD ME SOMETHING NEW. THAT TWR CAN, BASED ON THEIR JUDGEMENT AND PREVIOUS ACFT LNDGS, CLR PLANES TO CROSS DOWNFIELD LIKE THIS. I TOLD HER THIS TODAY WAS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS AND THAT WE HAD TO MAKE SURE WE EXITED SO AS NOT TO RUN INTO ACR Y. WE DID NOT JAM ON THE BRAKES, BUT WE COULD HAVE EASILY ELECTED TO EXIT AT ALPHA WHERE ACR Y WAS XING. IT IS OUR RWY UNTIL WE ARE THROUGH LNDG. I FELT TWR SHOULD HAVE ASKED US IF WE HAD THE LAST HIGH SPEED BEFORE CLRING ACR Y TO CROSS. ALSO THIS IS A DEP FROM NORMAL TO ME IN MY PAST EXPERIENCES WITH THIS XING AREA. MANY TIMES I HAVE BEEN IN REVERSED ROLES AND WE WERE NOT CLRED TO CROSS WHEN MUCH MORE TIME WAS AVAILABLE. IF THIS IS TRUE THAT TWR CAN USE THEIR JUDGEMENT HERE, THEN TODAY WAS BORDERING ON UNSAFE. AS I SAID IT STARTLED BOTH ME AND THE FO. IT ALSO APPEARED TO US THAT XING THE TFC WAS PRIORITY OVER OUR EXITING BEING ASSURED. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT WHILE ON LNDG ROLL AT APPROX 120 KTS, HE OBSERVED AN MD90 ACFT XING THE RWY AT TXWY A. HE SAID BOTH HE AND THE FO WERE ON THE BRAKES AND WITH A GREAT DEAL OF EFFORT WERE ABLE TO TURN OFF ON TXWY E6. IN A DISCUSSION WITH THE TWR SUPVR, HE WAS TOLD FOR YRS DFW HAS HAD A PROCEDURE THAT CTLRS, BASED ON THEIR JUDGEMENT AND PREVIOUS ACFT LNDGS, COULD CLR ACFT TO CROSS AN OCCUPIED RWY DOWNFIELD. THE SUPVR ALSO STATED CTLRS USE THE AMASS EQUIP TO DETERMINE THE LNDG ACFT'S SPEED. THE PLT WAS ASKED BY THE SUPVR WHAT HE WOULD HAVE LIKED THE CTLR TO DO. RPTR SAID HE WOULD LIKE TO BE ASKED BY THE CTLR IF HE COULD MAKE A PARTICULAR TURNOFF.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.