37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 594694 |
Time | |
Date | 200309 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : 1s0.airport |
State Reference | WA |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : instructional |
Make Model Name | Experimental |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : roll |
Flight Plan | None |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : instructor oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : cfi pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 60 flight time total : 2000 flight time type : 20 |
ASRS Report | 594694 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : single pilot instruction : trainee |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 35 flight time total : 3700 flight time type : 370 |
ASRS Report | 594840 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground critical non adherence : required legal separation non adherence : far other anomaly other other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : executed go around |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 400 |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Aircraft Environmental Factor |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Just prior to power reduction, I checked the pattern ahead of us and to our left (as much as I could see from the right seat) and did not see any traffic. This confirmed the notion derived from the fact that we had heard nobody on the radio. On this second approach, the pilot had better altitude margins, and we discussed the possibility of 'squaring off' the turn to final or slipping or s-turns on final to lose altitude. We also discussed other drag measures, and the pilot extended the gear and flaps at a comfortable altitude -- which I agreed demonstrated good judgement. He also used a slight sideslip on very short final. Touchdown was uneventful on the runway with plenty of room to stop. We rolled comfortably to the end. Approaching the turnoff at the end, a tail dragger passed just above and to our right. The PF idented it as a taylorcraft. We questioned each other about where this aircraft could have come from, as neither of us had seen it, nor heard anyone on the radio, and we had been taking care to look. After passing us, the aircraft flew a short crosswind, a very close in downwind at what looked like a very low altitude, and landed before we had taxied 2/3 down the runway. As neither of us saw the other aircraft until it passed overhead, this may have been a classic low wing, high-wing scenario. Our aircraft was low-wing, at low speed, in a nose-high attitude and with a steep, continuously turning descent path. Even though we were actively looking, we simply did not see the other aircraft. It is possible that our limited downwind visibility combined with a steep descent path could have set up a conflict situation at the approach end of the runway. We need to be extra vigilant at uncontrolled fields for NORDO aircraft. In the future, I will consider interrupting the maneuver to get one more good look at the approach path to ensure it is clear. Supplemental information from acn 594840: just prior to turning off at the end of the active runway I saw a taylorcraft fly over us at lower than pattern altitude (maybe 400 ft). I didn't see him at any time, on downwind, base or final. I didn't hear him make any radio calls at any time. Since I was flying at 90 mph and he was probably 65 mph I must have been well ahead of him. I questioned the BFR pilot about the taylorcraft since neither of us heard or saw him until then. I don't know where he came from. My descent angle was steeper than normal, but not excessively different than usual. Someone in a pickup truck was driving very fast on the taxiway next to the hangars, so we were concerned that I either scared him with the emergency landing approach or we may have been close to the taylorcraft, but he wouldn't talk to us.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CRITICAL GND CONFLICT OCCURS WHEN A PRACTICE EMER LNDG HOMEBUILT CUTS OUT A LNDG TAYLORCRAFT ON FINAL AT 1SO, WA.
Narrative: JUST PRIOR TO PWR REDUCTION, I CHKED THE PATTERN AHEAD OF US AND TO OUR L (AS MUCH AS I COULD SEE FROM THE R SEAT) AND DID NOT SEE ANY TFC. THIS CONFIRMED THE NOTION DERIVED FROM THE FACT THAT WE HAD HEARD NOBODY ON THE RADIO. ON THIS SECOND APCH, THE PLT HAD BETTER ALT MARGINS, AND WE DISCUSSED THE POSSIBILITY OF 'SQUARING OFF' THE TURN TO FINAL OR SLIPPING OR S-TURNS ON FINAL TO LOSE ALT. WE ALSO DISCUSSED OTHER DRAG MEASURES, AND THE PLT EXTENDED THE GEAR AND FLAPS AT A COMFORTABLE ALT -- WHICH I AGREED DEMONSTRATED GOOD JUDGEMENT. HE ALSO USED A SLIGHT SIDESLIP ON VERY SHORT FINAL. TOUCHDOWN WAS UNEVENTFUL ON THE RWY WITH PLENTY OF ROOM TO STOP. WE ROLLED COMFORTABLY TO THE END. APCHING THE TURNOFF AT THE END, A TAIL DRAGGER PASSED JUST ABOVE AND TO OUR R. THE PF IDENTED IT AS A TAYLORCRAFT. WE QUESTIONED EACH OTHER ABOUT WHERE THIS ACFT COULD HAVE COME FROM, AS NEITHER OF US HAD SEEN IT, NOR HEARD ANYONE ON THE RADIO, AND WE HAD BEEN TAKING CARE TO LOOK. AFTER PASSING US, THE ACFT FLEW A SHORT XWIND, A VERY CLOSE IN DOWNWIND AT WHAT LOOKED LIKE A VERY LOW ALT, AND LANDED BEFORE WE HAD TAXIED 2/3 DOWN THE RWY. AS NEITHER OF US SAW THE OTHER ACFT UNTIL IT PASSED OVERHEAD, THIS MAY HAVE BEEN A CLASSIC LOW WING, HIGH-WING SCENARIO. OUR ACFT WAS LOW-WING, AT LOW SPD, IN A NOSE-HIGH ATTITUDE AND WITH A STEEP, CONTINUOUSLY TURNING DSCNT PATH. EVEN THOUGH WE WERE ACTIVELY LOOKING, WE SIMPLY DID NOT SEE THE OTHER ACFT. IT IS POSSIBLE THAT OUR LIMITED DOWNWIND VISIBILITY COMBINED WITH A STEEP DSCNT PATH COULD HAVE SET UP A CONFLICT SIT AT THE APCH END OF THE RWY. WE NEED TO BE EXTRA VIGILANT AT UNCTLED FIELDS FOR NORDO ACFT. IN THE FUTURE, I WILL CONSIDER INTERRUPTING THE MANEUVER TO GET ONE MORE GOOD LOOK AT THE APCH PATH TO ENSURE IT IS CLR. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 594840: JUST PRIOR TO TURNING OFF AT THE END OF THE ACTIVE RWY I SAW A TAYLORCRAFT FLY OVER US AT LOWER THAN PATTERN ALT (MAYBE 400 FT). I DIDN'T SEE HIM AT ANY TIME, ON DOWNWIND, BASE OR FINAL. I DIDN'T HEAR HIM MAKE ANY RADIO CALLS AT ANY TIME. SINCE I WAS FLYING AT 90 MPH AND HE WAS PROBABLY 65 MPH I MUST HAVE BEEN WELL AHEAD OF HIM. I QUESTIONED THE BFR PLT ABOUT THE TAYLORCRAFT SINCE NEITHER OF US HEARD OR SAW HIM UNTIL THEN. I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE CAME FROM. MY DSCNT ANGLE WAS STEEPER THAN NORMAL, BUT NOT EXCESSIVELY DIFFERENT THAN USUAL. SOMEONE IN A PICKUP TRUCK WAS DRIVING VERY FAST ON THE TXWY NEXT TO THE HANGARS, SO WE WERE CONCERNED THAT I EITHER SCARED HIM WITH THE EMER LNDG APCH OR WE MAY HAVE BEEN CLOSE TO THE TAYLORCRAFT, BUT HE WOULDN'T TALK TO US.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.