37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 595805 |
Time | |
Date | 200310 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | intersection : netee |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl single value : 2400 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 18r |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : go around |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 595805 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Location: netee intersection, arrival. While setting up for localizer approach to runway 18R at dfw, I was asked for 180 KTS to the marker. I was also given all of the perfunctory information with regard to altitude, heading, cleared for the approach, etc. I held 180 degrees until localizer intercept. I held 180 KTS until I thought that I had barely enough room to slow to 129 KTS approach speed, required for non precision approachs. I wanted to give the controller as much of what he needed as I possibly could and still comply with company procedures for non precision approachs. Shortly after starting descent passing netee intersection, I was told to turn right to 270 des and climb and maintain 3000 ft. I complied with the controller's instructions. After getting established at 3000 ft, I asked what happened. I was told traffic behind me was faster and so I was broken out. I have the feeling that the controller and I got into a little bit of a fight about how I was going to fly the approach. Now reluctantly I got into a conversation about how I couldn't comply with his instructions and he still kept trying to give me the higher speed to the marker. I want to get along and work with ATC, but I think this controller needs to be reminded who the captain of the aircraft is. Throughout the remainder of my time with the controller, he tried basically to terrorize me into flying the approach the way he wanted me to. He threatened to break me out again if I didn't comply. I responded that I needed to know when I could be cleared to fly the approach if that was the case. He then backed off a little, but I ended up faster than I'm supposed to be over the FAF. I think that part of this is that we don't shoot that approach very often.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CAPT IS FRUSTRATED WITH ATC SPD INSTRUCTION DURING APCH TO DFW.
Narrative: LOCATION: NETEE INTXN, ARR. WHILE SETTING UP FOR LOC APCH TO RWY 18R AT DFW, I WAS ASKED FOR 180 KTS TO THE MARKER. I WAS ALSO GIVEN ALL OF THE PERFUNCTORY INFO WITH REGARD TO ALT, HDG, CLRED FOR THE APCH, ETC. I HELD 180 DEGS UNTIL LOC INTERCEPT. I HELD 180 KTS UNTIL I THOUGHT THAT I HAD BARELY ENOUGH ROOM TO SLOW TO 129 KTS APCH SPD, REQUIRED FOR NON PRECISION APCHS. I WANTED TO GIVE THE CTLR AS MUCH OF WHAT HE NEEDED AS I POSSIBLY COULD AND STILL COMPLY WITH COMPANY PROCS FOR NON PRECISION APCHS. SHORTLY AFTER STARTING DSCNT PASSING NETEE INTXN, I WAS TOLD TO TURN R TO 270 DES AND CLB AND MAINTAIN 3000 FT. I COMPLIED WITH THE CTLR'S INSTRUCTIONS. AFTER GETTING ESTABLISHED AT 3000 FT, I ASKED WHAT HAPPENED. I WAS TOLD TFC BEHIND ME WAS FASTER AND SO I WAS BROKEN OUT. I HAVE THE FEELING THAT THE CTLR AND I GOT INTO A LITTLE BIT OF A FIGHT ABOUT HOW I WAS GOING TO FLY THE APCH. NOW RELUCTANTLY I GOT INTO A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW I COULDN'T COMPLY WITH HIS INSTRUCTIONS AND HE STILL KEPT TRYING TO GIVE ME THE HIGHER SPD TO THE MARKER. I WANT TO GET ALONG AND WORK WITH ATC, BUT I THINK THIS CTLR NEEDS TO BE REMINDED WHO THE CAPT OF THE ACFT IS. THROUGHOUT THE REMAINDER OF MY TIME WITH THE CTLR, HE TRIED BASICALLY TO TERRORIZE ME INTO FLYING THE APCH THE WAY HE WANTED ME TO. HE THREATENED TO BREAK ME OUT AGAIN IF I DIDN'T COMPLY. I RESPONDED THAT I NEEDED TO KNOW WHEN I COULD BE CLRED TO FLY THE APCH IF THAT WAS THE CASE. HE THEN BACKED OFF A LITTLE, BUT I ENDED UP FASTER THAN I'M SUPPOSED TO BE OVER THE FAF. I THINK THAT PART OF THIS IS THAT WE DON'T SHOOT THAT APCH VERY OFTEN.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.