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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 597647 |
Time | |
Date | 200310 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | msl single value : 1800 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : nct.tracon tower : sfo.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B767-300 and 300 ER |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 28l other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : nct.tracon tower : sfo.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Airbus Industrie Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 62 flight time total : 12174 flight time type : 603 |
ASRS Report | 597647 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure non adherence other other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Traffic at 12 O'clock position, on base leg for runway 28R was pointed out to us by approach. We confirmed lights at 12 O'clock position and were cleared for the visual to runway 28L. Our instructions were to maintain 180 KTS to the bridge and not to overtake the traffic for runway 28R. We acknowledged. At the bridge, we immediately started slowing. In the B767, you can't take final flaps until 170 KTS and I used full speed brakes to slow as quickly as possible. During this time, we were advised by approach that we were 50 KTS faster than the traffic for the right! We replied we were slowing. We took flaps 30 degrees and I used full speed brakes to slow to our reference speed (without additives) of 138 KTS and then armed the speed brakes for landing. At this minimum speed, we were still gaining on the traffic for runway 28R, an airbus. We switched to tower and were cleared to land on runway 28L. I asked the first officer to advise tower we were at minimum speed and gaining on the traffic which seemed very slow. The first officer, who for a large part of his career has flown into sfo said -- don't worry, the tower will tell you if he needs you to go around. I didn't demand he call as I was about to land and also thinking through the go around. We landed pretty much simultaneously as far as I could discern. The landing itself was uneventful. I believe the situation arose when the traffic flow seemed to require a heavy aircraft to maintain 180 KTS until a little over 5 mi out, while a much smaller airbus at much lower airspeed was going to runway 28R. From now on, when this situation arises, I will query approach on the ground speed of the leading aircraft to check on the 180 KT requirement at the bridge. Hopefully controller will also be aware of the differences in minimum speeds among 'heavies' and other jetliners.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B767 PLT IS CONCERNED WITH ATC SPD ASSIGNMENTS DURING VISUAL SIDE-BY-SIDE OPS AT SFO.
Narrative: TFC AT 12 O'CLOCK POS, ON BASE LEG FOR RWY 28R WAS POINTED OUT TO US BY APCH. WE CONFIRMED LIGHTS AT 12 O'CLOCK POS AND WERE CLRED FOR THE VISUAL TO RWY 28L. OUR INSTRUCTIONS WERE TO MAINTAIN 180 KTS TO THE BRIDGE AND NOT TO OVERTAKE THE TFC FOR RWY 28R. WE ACKNOWLEDGED. AT THE BRIDGE, WE IMMEDIATELY STARTED SLOWING. IN THE B767, YOU CAN'T TAKE FINAL FLAPS UNTIL 170 KTS AND I USED FULL SPD BRAKES TO SLOW AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. DURING THIS TIME, WE WERE ADVISED BY APCH THAT WE WERE 50 KTS FASTER THAN THE TFC FOR THE RIGHT! WE REPLIED WE WERE SLOWING. WE TOOK FLAPS 30 DEGS AND I USED FULL SPD BRAKES TO SLOW TO OUR REF SPD (WITHOUT ADDITIVES) OF 138 KTS AND THEN ARMED THE SPD BRAKES FOR LNDG. AT THIS MINIMUM SPD, WE WERE STILL GAINING ON THE TFC FOR RWY 28R, AN AIRBUS. WE SWITCHED TO TWR AND WERE CLRED TO LAND ON RWY 28L. I ASKED THE FO TO ADVISE TWR WE WERE AT MINIMUM SPD AND GAINING ON THE TFC WHICH SEEMED VERY SLOW. THE FO, WHO FOR A LARGE PART OF HIS CAREER HAS FLOWN INTO SFO SAID -- DON'T WORRY, THE TWR WILL TELL YOU IF HE NEEDS YOU TO GO AROUND. I DIDN'T DEMAND HE CALL AS I WAS ABOUT TO LAND AND ALSO THINKING THROUGH THE GAR. WE LANDED PRETTY MUCH SIMULTANEOUSLY AS FAR AS I COULD DISCERN. THE LNDG ITSELF WAS UNEVENTFUL. I BELIEVE THE SIT AROSE WHEN THE TFC FLOW SEEMED TO REQUIRE A HVY ACFT TO MAINTAIN 180 KTS UNTIL A LITTLE OVER 5 MI OUT, WHILE A MUCH SMALLER AIRBUS AT MUCH LOWER AIRSPD WAS GOING TO RWY 28R. FROM NOW ON, WHEN THIS SIT ARISES, I WILL QUERY APCH ON THE GND SPD OF THE LEADING ACFT TO CHK ON THE 180 KT REQUIREMENT AT THE BRIDGE. HOPEFULLY CTLR WILL ALSO BE AWARE OF THE DIFFERENCES IN MINIMUM SPDS AMONG 'HEAVIES' AND OTHER JETLINERS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.