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N90 approach challenges DA50 flight crew for not maintaining 180 KTS on final to teb runway 6 after just establishing radar contact, having issued a delay radar vector, forgetting them, losing radar and radio contact.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 598747 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200311 |
| Day | Wed |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : teb.airport |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl single value : 3000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | IMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon tower : sna.tower |
| Operator | general aviation : corporate |
| Make Model Name | Falcon 50 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
| Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 6 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Route In Use | approach : instrument precision arrival : on vectors |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
| Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : corporate |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Qualification | pilot : atp |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 50 flight time total : 12100 flight time type : 800 |
| ASRS Report | 598747 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : corporate |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | airspace violation : exit non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other anomaly other anomaly other |
| Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : radar other controllera |
| Resolutory Action | controller : issued alert controller : issued new clearance flight crew : returned to original clearance |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew faa : investigated |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | Navigational Facility Flight Crew Human Performance Weather ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Air Traffic Incident | Operational Deviation Intra Facility Coordination Failure |
Narrative:
I was flying approach to teb, runway 6 ILS. While being vectored, the ILS went temporary OTS. Ny approach gave us a 350 degree heading at 3000 ft and did not say anything else, except it would be a vector until the ILS situation was sorted out at teb. Finally, the controller called us, said he lost radar contact and where were we? He wanted to know were we were in relation to sparta VOR. We were losing radio contact. We were 20 NM north of sparta and relayed this information through another aircraft. He (controller) had us make a turn to 180 degrees. Eventually we got back to radar contact and radio communication. He had us climb to 4000 ft. The ILS at teb was restored. On the vector to the approach we were finally cleared for the ILS runway 6, cross dandy at 1500 ft and contact teb tower. Teb tower told us to maintain 180 KTS. We were just a few mi from the OM at 120 KTS. We said we were unable. They broke us off the approach, 350 degrees and 3000 ft. The same approach controller was very upset saying we were given 180 KTS to the marker and we acknowledged it. We said we do not recall anything. He was even more upset. Eventually, we landed and called approach. They said we acknowledged 180 degrees? We did get 180 degree heading. I just do not remember any speed requirement.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: N90 APCH CHALLENGES DA50 FLT CREW FOR NOT MAINTAINING 180 KTS ON FINAL TO TEB RWY 6 AFTER JUST ESTABLISHING RADAR CONTACT, HAVING ISSUED A DELAY RADAR VECTOR, FORGETTING THEM, LOSING RADAR AND RADIO CONTACT.
Narrative: I WAS FLYING APCH TO TEB, RWY 6 ILS. WHILE BEING VECTORED, THE ILS WENT TEMPORARY OTS. NY APCH GAVE US A 350 DEG HDG AT 3000 FT AND DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ELSE, EXCEPT IT WOULD BE A VECTOR UNTIL THE ILS SIT WAS SORTED OUT AT TEB. FINALLY, THE CTLR CALLED US, SAID HE LOST RADAR CONTACT AND WHERE WERE WE? HE WANTED TO KNOW WERE WE WERE IN RELATION TO SPARTA VOR. WE WERE LOSING RADIO CONTACT. WE WERE 20 NM N OF SPARTA AND RELAYED THIS INFO THROUGH ANOTHER ACFT. HE (CTLR) HAD US MAKE A TURN TO 180 DEGS. EVENTUALLY WE GOT BACK TO RADAR CONTACT AND RADIO COM. HE HAD US CLB TO 4000 FT. THE ILS AT TEB WAS RESTORED. ON THE VECTOR TO THE APCH WE WERE FINALLY CLRED FOR THE ILS RWY 6, CROSS DANDY AT 1500 FT AND CONTACT TEB TWR. TEB TWR TOLD US TO MAINTAIN 180 KTS. WE WERE JUST A FEW MI FROM THE OM AT 120 KTS. WE SAID WE WERE UNABLE. THEY BROKE US OFF THE APCH, 350 DEGS AND 3000 FT. THE SAME APCH CTLR WAS VERY UPSET SAYING WE WERE GIVEN 180 KTS TO THE MARKER AND WE ACKNOWLEDGED IT. WE SAID WE DO NOT RECALL ANYTHING. HE WAS EVEN MORE UPSET. EVENTUALLY, WE LANDED AND CALLED APCH. THEY SAID WE ACKNOWLEDGED 180 DEGS? WE DID GET 180 DEG HDG. I JUST DO NOT REMEMBER ANY SPD REQUIREMENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.