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B737-700 flight crew question L30 dc 'comply with restrs' phraseology when no subsequent restrs are depicted on the las tralr RNAV SID.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 603677 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200401 |
| Day | Sat |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | airport : las.airport |
| State Reference | NV |
| Altitude | msl single value : 7000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : l30.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B737-700 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Navigation In Use | other |
| Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | departure sid : tralr |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Aircraft 2 | |
| Controlling Facilities | tracon : l30.tracon |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
| Route In Use | departure sid : tralr |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 150 |
| ASRS Report | 603677 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
| Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
| Situations | |
| ATC Facility | procedure or policy : l30.tracon |
Narrative:
Clearance was radar vectored to tralr RNAV one departure. Takeoff runway 1R, initial clearance was climb to 7000 ft vector 050 degrees. First ATC vector after handoff from tower was 100 degrees. Then, 'climb to FL190, comply with restrs, vector 060 degrees.' we tried to query what restr ATC controller was referring to. B-700 model navigation display showed us heading nearly directly to 'napse' which has an 'at or below 7000 ft restr.' we decided until we could get an answer to what restr he was talking about, we would maintain 7000 ft until abeam napse and then climb. About the time we were abeam napse, the controller answered our question -- that there was no restr on a radar vector. The manner and tone of the controller was as if we were total idiots. Moments later, he had issued the same, 'comply with restrs' to another air carrier. This guy asked the same question we did, and added, 'why are you saying comply with restrs if there are none?' the controller answered, 'because I have to.' this controller was confusing everyone. If there are no restrs, then why is he saying, 'comply with restrs?' he is creating his own problems, and then the frequency becomes congested with everyone trying to figure out what to do. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter has not returned to las since this event. Reporter is aware that theirs and other company inquiries have resulted in the FAA researching areas for clarification. Reporter believes that the phrase 'comply with restrs' can only be executed with altitude crossing restrs.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737-700 FLT CREW QUESTION L30 DC 'COMPLY WITH RESTRS' PHRASEOLOGY WHEN NO SUBSEQUENT RESTRS ARE DEPICTED ON THE LAS TRALR RNAV SID.
Narrative: CLRNC WAS RADAR VECTORED TO TRALR RNAV ONE DEP. TKOF RWY 1R, INITIAL CLRNC WAS CLB TO 7000 FT VECTOR 050 DEGS. FIRST ATC VECTOR AFTER HDOF FROM TWR WAS 100 DEGS. THEN, 'CLB TO FL190, COMPLY WITH RESTRS, VECTOR 060 DEGS.' WE TRIED TO QUERY WHAT RESTR ATC CTLR WAS REFERRING TO. B-700 MODEL NAV DISPLAY SHOWED US HEADING NEARLY DIRECTLY TO 'NAPSE' WHICH HAS AN 'AT OR BELOW 7000 FT RESTR.' WE DECIDED UNTIL WE COULD GET AN ANSWER TO WHAT RESTR HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, WE WOULD MAINTAIN 7000 FT UNTIL ABEAM NAPSE AND THEN CLB. ABOUT THE TIME WE WERE ABEAM NAPSE, THE CTLR ANSWERED OUR QUESTION -- THAT THERE WAS NO RESTR ON A RADAR VECTOR. THE MANNER AND TONE OF THE CTLR WAS AS IF WE WERE TOTAL IDIOTS. MOMENTS LATER, HE HAD ISSUED THE SAME, 'COMPLY WITH RESTRS' TO ANOTHER ACR. THIS GUY ASKED THE SAME QUESTION WE DID, AND ADDED, 'WHY ARE YOU SAYING COMPLY WITH RESTRS IF THERE ARE NONE?' THE CTLR ANSWERED, 'BECAUSE I HAVE TO.' THIS CTLR WAS CONFUSING EVERYONE. IF THERE ARE NO RESTRS, THEN WHY IS HE SAYING, 'COMPLY WITH RESTRS?' HE IS CREATING HIS OWN PROBS, AND THEN THE FREQ BECOMES CONGESTED WITH EVERYONE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR HAS NOT RETURNED TO LAS SINCE THIS EVENT. RPTR IS AWARE THAT THEIRS AND OTHER COMPANY INQUIRIES HAVE RESULTED IN THE FAA RESEARCHING AREAS FOR CLARIFICATION. RPTR BELIEVES THAT THE PHRASE 'COMPLY WITH RESTRS' CAN ONLY BE EXECUTED WITH ALT XING RESTRS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.