37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 607575 |
Time | |
Date | 200402 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : jac.airport |
State Reference | WY |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Snow Ice |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | general aviation : personal |
Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 18 other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach landing : roll |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 3300 flight time type : 300 |
ASRS Report | 607575 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | other |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe ground encounters : vehicle non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : took evasive action |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Airport Weather ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
I had never been to jac before (or wyoming). As we were approaching jac, center asked us to slow down, there was a cherokee on the approach. We complied. The cherokee got very disoriented. They took him back around on vectors to retry the ILS. I offered to do several 360 degree turns to give him more spacing. We were still VMC and I would have rather stayed VMC than go to the VOR and hold IMC with reported icing. Approach said ok. The cherokee got in, and we were cleared to a fix. I asked for clarification, approach cleared us to the VOR and cleared us for the approach. (There was no pt required from the VOR.) we got established, approach handed us off to tower. I picked up new ATIS with muu reports (braking action). Tower said he would get us a new muu report, then asked us if we had the report. I answered in the affirmative, we had the new braking action report. I was monitoring first officer. My experience shows new pilots in the piaggio tend to get slow. Very dangerous in the P180. Approach speed is 140 KTS, touchdown is 120 KTS. I was inside and outside, watching for runway and monitoring first officer. We got ground contact about 500-600 ft AGL, but forward visibility was 1 mi or less than 1 mi. Finally saw runway/lights. We touched down and I saw objects on both sides of runway approximately 1/2 way down. I was not expecting anything to be on the runway. We were never told snow removal equipment on runway. I made a judgement call. I could see there was room between the snow plows for us with plenty of room on either side. We were slowed down to where the IAS wasn't even reading when we passed the trucks. I didn't want to try a touch-and-go, jac is approximately 6600 ft MSL. We probably would not have been airborne by the time we were by the plows. Our course of action was the safest possible in that situation. Tower told us to contact him via phone. Tower person and I talked several times. He told me he had only been there 1 month. He told us he was the only one in the tower. Why was there no supervisor in the tower? Why didn't he tell us there was equipment on the runway? Why am I cleared for an approach when there is equipment that can make my localizer read erroneous in IMC? Did his ATIS say snow removal was in effect?
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: P180 LNDG JAC OBSERVED SNOW PLOWS ON RWY DURING LNDG ROLL, NO INFO FROM ATC.
Narrative: I HAD NEVER BEEN TO JAC BEFORE (OR WYOMING). AS WE WERE APCHING JAC, CTR ASKED US TO SLOW DOWN, THERE WAS A CHEROKEE ON THE APCH. WE COMPLIED. THE CHEROKEE GOT VERY DISORIENTED. THEY TOOK HIM BACK AROUND ON VECTORS TO RETRY THE ILS. I OFFERED TO DO SEVERAL 360 DEG TURNS TO GIVE HIM MORE SPACING. WE WERE STILL VMC AND I WOULD HAVE RATHER STAYED VMC THAN GO TO THE VOR AND HOLD IMC WITH RPTED ICING. APCH SAID OK. THE CHEROKEE GOT IN, AND WE WERE CLRED TO A FIX. I ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION, APCH CLRED US TO THE VOR AND CLRED US FOR THE APCH. (THERE WAS NO PT REQUIRED FROM THE VOR.) WE GOT ESTABLISHED, APCH HANDED US OFF TO TWR. I PICKED UP NEW ATIS WITH MUU RPTS (BRAKING ACTION). TWR SAID HE WOULD GET US A NEW MUU RPT, THEN ASKED US IF WE HAD THE RPT. I ANSWERED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE, WE HAD THE NEW BRAKING ACTION RPT. I WAS MONITORING FO. MY EXPERIENCE SHOWS NEW PLTS IN THE PIAGGIO TEND TO GET SLOW. VERY DANGEROUS IN THE P180. APCH SPD IS 140 KTS, TOUCHDOWN IS 120 KTS. I WAS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE, WATCHING FOR RWY AND MONITORING FO. WE GOT GND CONTACT ABOUT 500-600 FT AGL, BUT FORWARD VISIBILITY WAS 1 MI OR LESS THAN 1 MI. FINALLY SAW RWY/LIGHTS. WE TOUCHED DOWN AND I SAW OBJECTS ON BOTH SIDES OF RWY APPROX 1/2 WAY DOWN. I WAS NOT EXPECTING ANYTHING TO BE ON THE RWY. WE WERE NEVER TOLD SNOW REMOVAL EQUIP ON RWY. I MADE A JUDGEMENT CALL. I COULD SEE THERE WAS ROOM BTWN THE SNOW PLOWS FOR US WITH PLENTY OF ROOM ON EITHER SIDE. WE WERE SLOWED DOWN TO WHERE THE IAS WASN'T EVEN READING WHEN WE PASSED THE TRUCKS. I DIDN'T WANT TO TRY A TOUCH-AND-GO, JAC IS APPROX 6600 FT MSL. WE PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN AIRBORNE BY THE TIME WE WERE BY THE PLOWS. OUR COURSE OF ACTION WAS THE SAFEST POSSIBLE IN THAT SIT. TWR TOLD US TO CONTACT HIM VIA PHONE. TWR PERSON AND I TALKED SEVERAL TIMES. HE TOLD ME HE HAD ONLY BEEN THERE 1 MONTH. HE TOLD US HE WAS THE ONLY ONE IN THE TWR. WHY WAS THERE NO SUPVR IN THE TWR? WHY DIDN'T HE TELL US THERE WAS EQUIP ON THE RWY? WHY AM I CLRED FOR AN APCH WHEN THERE IS EQUIP THAT CAN MAKE MY LOC READ ERRONEOUS IN IMC? DID HIS ATIS SAY SNOW REMOVAL WAS IN EFFECT?
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.