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Attributes | |
ACN | 610222 |
Time | |
Date | 200403 |
Day | Fri |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 2300 msl bound upper : 3000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : d10.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Super 80 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | ils localizer & glide slope : 17l other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : instrument precision |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 610222 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory flight crew : overrode automation |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Approach cleared flight for ILS runway 17L, maintain 180 KTS to menol. ATIS reported 100 ft ceilings, 1 1/2 mi visibility with runway RVR 5000-6000 ft. CAT 2 ILS briefed. I was in map with captain in raw data. 1.5 mi prior to menol intersection, selected gear down and approach flaps 40 degrees. Aircraft began to slow down to approach speed of approximately 130 KTS. Approach called and asked us to speed up. We were 144 KTS at that time slowing to vref. I saw an FMS waypoint message with .4 dtg. Captain reported inside menol. Approach said he was showing us 2 mi from menol. I switched to raw data and saw 5.0 DME (menol is 5.2 DME). At that time, we were track/track, gear down, flaps 40 degrees on glide path. With the reported WX and a CAT 2 ILS briefed, it seems to me that asking someone to speed up just prior to the FAF is a bad idea. We configured the aircraft to be in a landing confign at the FAF to allow for stable IFR approach. It's obvious, either our DME was off or the approach controller's radar was out of calibration. I did not think slowing down and configuring 1.5 DME prior to menol would cause problems with approach's spacing. Maintaining 180 KTS until the FAF and then throwing everything out and trying to slow down and go down on a CAT 2 approach is not the way to do business. Even waiting until 1.5 before to slow down is pushing it in my humble opinion. Probably should have said something to approach about slowing down just prior to menol, but don't know how we could have gotten that into the radio chatter, because he was talking a mi a min allowing only enough response time to repeat his verbatim instructions before moving on to the next aircraft with instructions. Additional information received in next debrief: aircraft position/speed during IMC approach.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 FLT CREW DISREGARDED D10 APCH CLRNC SPD RESTR APCHING THE DFW RWY 17L ILS FAF TO BEGIN LNDG CONFIGN AND STABLE APCH REQUIREMENTS.
Narrative: APCH CLRED FLT FOR ILS RWY 17L, MAINTAIN 180 KTS TO MENOL. ATIS RPTED 100 FT CEILINGS, 1 1/2 MI VISIBILITY WITH RWY RVR 5000-6000 FT. CAT 2 ILS BRIEFED. I WAS IN MAP WITH CAPT IN RAW DATA. 1.5 MI PRIOR TO MENOL INTXN, SELECTED GEAR DOWN AND APCH FLAPS 40 DEGS. ACFT BEGAN TO SLOW DOWN TO APCH SPD OF APPROX 130 KTS. APCH CALLED AND ASKED US TO SPD UP. WE WERE 144 KTS AT THAT TIME SLOWING TO VREF. I SAW AN FMS WAYPOINT MESSAGE WITH .4 DTG. CAPT RPTED INSIDE MENOL. APCH SAID HE WAS SHOWING US 2 MI FROM MENOL. I SWITCHED TO RAW DATA AND SAW 5.0 DME (MENOL IS 5.2 DME). AT THAT TIME, WE WERE TRACK/TRACK, GEAR DOWN, FLAPS 40 DEGS ON GLIDE PATH. WITH THE RPTED WX AND A CAT 2 ILS BRIEFED, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ASKING SOMEONE TO SPD UP JUST PRIOR TO THE FAF IS A BAD IDEA. WE CONFIGURED THE ACFT TO BE IN A LNDG CONFIGN AT THE FAF TO ALLOW FOR STABLE IFR APCH. IT'S OBVIOUS, EITHER OUR DME WAS OFF OR THE APCH CTLR'S RADAR WAS OUT OF CALIBRATION. I DID NOT THINK SLOWING DOWN AND CONFIGURING 1.5 DME PRIOR TO MENOL WOULD CAUSE PROBS WITH APCH'S SPACING. MAINTAINING 180 KTS UNTIL THE FAF AND THEN THROWING EVERYTHING OUT AND TRYING TO SLOW DOWN AND GO DOWN ON A CAT 2 APCH IS NOT THE WAY TO DO BUSINESS. EVEN WAITING UNTIL 1.5 BEFORE TO SLOW DOWN IS PUSHING IT IN MY HUMBLE OPINION. PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO APCH ABOUT SLOWING DOWN JUST PRIOR TO MENOL, BUT DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT INTO THE RADIO CHATTER, BECAUSE HE WAS TALKING A MI A MIN ALLOWING ONLY ENOUGH RESPONSE TIME TO REPEAT HIS VERBATIM INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE MOVING ON TO THE NEXT ACFT WITH INSTRUCTIONS. ADDITIONAL INFO RECEIVED IN NEXT DEBRIEF: ACFT POS/SPD DURING IMC APCH.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.