A DC10 PIC's complaint regarding the local controller's technique on aircraft spacing for departure ...

Attributes
ACN	618968
Time
Date	200405
Day	Wed
Local Time Of Day	0601 To 1200
Place
Locale Reference	airport : msp.airport
State Reference	MN
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 1600
Environment
Flight Conditions	VMC
Light	Daylight
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : msp.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	DC-10 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	descent : approach landing : roll
Route In Use	approach : visual
Flight Plan	IFR
Aircraft 2
Controlling Facilities	tower : msp.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B727 Undifferentiated or Other Model
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	climbout : takeoff ground : takeoff roll
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : atp
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 25000 flight time type : 900
ASRS Report	618968
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	aircraft equipment problem : critical conflict : ground less severe
Independent Detector	aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : sys 3 light other flight crewa other flight crewb
Resolutory Action	flight crew : landed as precaution
Miss Distance	horizontal : 8000 vertical : 0
Supplementary
Problem Areas	ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem	Aircraft
Situations
ATC Facility	procedure or policy : msp.tower

Narrative:

Msp runway 30L visual approach. Flight to msp routine until just outside marker. Hydraulic system #3 elevator shut off light when gear down. Check quantity pressure -- ok. Skid and brake pressure -- ok. Confign for landing. Checklist complete. Crew decided to land and sort problem out on ground rather than go around and remain airborne with degraded system #3 hydraulic. At this point, didn't know if this was first indication of a major leak in system #3 which operates gear and about 1/3 of flight controls. First officer went to manual procedure for light. All this took less than 2 mins. Tower rolled a B727 in front of us. Spacing was tight. First officer watched B727 while I concentrated on landing. He was heavy and used just about all of runway. We touched down as he was rotating at far end. Msp has a history of marginal spacing and a high percentage of go arounds. A second problem is that when you go around, they expect you to fly runway heading. If you do, the aircraft taking off will fly right up into you. It's not easy going around in a DC10 and then flying formation with an aircraft climbing up under you on the first officer's side. In msp, the go around procedure should be an immediate climb and turn to a heading, at least 45 degrees away from the runway. It would be far safer than the way they do it now. Also, someone needs to tell msp that they're not that special. Everyone else in the world handles high volume without loss of separation. Msp needs to learn how to space traffic. As you know in a heavy, after a conflict, a single go around uses about 1/3 of your remaining fuel. Then, on top of everything else, you come back fuel critical. Msp doesn't need to push aircraft out in front of you and cause you to go around. As for the hydraulic light, we wrote it up. System #3 was intact and normal servicing took care of the problem. Dispatch and maintenance said additional paperwork was not required.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: A DC10 PIC'S COMPLAINT REGARDING THE LCL CTLR'S TECHNIQUE ON ACFT SPACING FOR DEP AND ARR FLTS. THIS WAS COMPLICATED BY AN ACFT EQUIP PROB WITH ACFT MAKING APCH TO OCCUPIED RWY FOR LNDG, MSP, MN.

Narrative: MSP RWY 30L VISUAL APCH. FLT TO MSP ROUTINE UNTIL JUST OUTSIDE MARKER. HYD SYS #3 ELEVATOR SHUT OFF LIGHT WHEN GEAR DOWN. CHK QUANTITY PRESSURE -- OK. SKID AND BRAKE PRESSURE -- OK. CONFIGN FOR LNDG. CHKLIST COMPLETE. CREW DECIDED TO LAND AND SORT PROB OUT ON GND RATHER THAN GO AROUND AND REMAIN AIRBORNE WITH DEGRADED SYS #3 HYD. AT THIS POINT, DIDN'T KNOW IF THIS WAS FIRST INDICATION OF A MAJOR LEAK IN SYS #3 WHICH OPERATES GEAR AND ABOUT 1/3 OF FLT CTLS. FO WENT TO MANUAL PROC FOR LIGHT. ALL THIS TOOK LESS THAN 2 MINS. TWR ROLLED A B727 IN FRONT OF US. SPACING WAS TIGHT. FO WATCHED B727 WHILE I CONCENTRATED ON LNDG. HE WAS HVY AND USED JUST ABOUT ALL OF RWY. WE TOUCHED DOWN AS HE WAS ROTATING AT FAR END. MSP HAS A HISTORY OF MARGINAL SPACING AND A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF GO AROUNDS. A SECOND PROB IS THAT WHEN YOU GO AROUND, THEY EXPECT YOU TO FLY RWY HDG. IF YOU DO, THE ACFT TAKING OFF WILL FLY RIGHT UP INTO YOU. IT'S NOT EASY GOING AROUND IN A DC10 AND THEN FLYING FORMATION WITH AN ACFT CLBING UP UNDER YOU ON THE FO'S SIDE. IN MSP, THE GAR PROC SHOULD BE AN IMMEDIATE CLB AND TURN TO A HDG, AT LEAST 45 DEGS AWAY FROM THE RWY. IT WOULD BE FAR SAFER THAN THE WAY THEY DO IT NOW. ALSO, SOMEONE NEEDS TO TELL MSP THAT THEY'RE NOT THAT SPECIAL. EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD HANDLES HIGH VOLUME WITHOUT LOSS OF SEPARATION. MSP NEEDS TO LEARN HOW TO SPACE TFC. AS YOU KNOW IN A HVY, AFTER A CONFLICT, A SINGLE GAR USES ABOUT 1/3 OF YOUR REMAINING FUEL. THEN, ON TOP OF EVERYTHING ELSE, YOU COME BACK FUEL CRITICAL. MSP DOESN'T NEED TO PUSH ACFT OUT IN FRONT OF YOU AND CAUSE YOU TO GO AROUND. AS FOR THE HYD LIGHT, WE WROTE IT UP. SYS #3 WAS INTACT AND NORMAL SVCING TOOK CARE OF THE PROB. DISPATCH AND MAINT SAID ADDITIONAL PAPERWORK WAS NOT REQUIRED.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

A DC10 PIC's complaint regarding the local controller's technique on aircraft spacing for departure and arrival flts. This was complicated by an aircraft equipment problem with aircraft making approach to occupied runway for landing, msp, mn.