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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 636416 |
Time | |
Date | 200411 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lnn.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl single value : 1300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Learjet 35 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 135 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 80 flight time total : 6500 flight time type : 2800 |
ASRS Report | 636416 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : investigated faa : assigned or threatened penalties faa : reviewed incident with flight crew other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Departing lnn on runway 23 which has an obstacle departure from that runway, which states (on commercial chart aerodrome side) 'climbing left heading 180 degrees until 1300 ft, then as cleared.' on that IMC morning on the runway, via cell phone, received a clearance from FSS that read 'climb heading 320 degrees, maintain 2000 ft, squawk XXXX.' in conflict with the obstacle departure. Not familiar with the territory, my co-captain and I discussed prior to departure that we were going to use the obstacle departure for runway 23. We went in front of the hangar to view 2 smoke stacks which we couldn't see due to poor visibility and ceiling. He said 'well, the WX is too bad to see them and our company procedure for departing IMC on runway 23 is that obstacle departure procedure and ZOB is going to yell at you, but this is what we do every time we depart runway 23 in IMC.' so we departed, followed the obstacle departure and, sure enough, ATC asked 'aircraft X, say heading.' responded with 'departing lnn via 180 degree heading till 1300 ft and in the turn to 320 degrees.' ATC, 'that's not [what] was assigned.' we were then questioned by the following controller 'why were you on a 180 degree heading?' I responded with 'obstacle departure from lnn runway 23.' ATC, 'when you get on the ground, call this number at cleveland approach.' once on the ground, spoke with ZOB. Went through the steps with him and he couldn't understand why we did what we did. He referred to government charts, I referred to commercial charts. I said 'they should say the same thing.' no actions taken against me. Following morning, spoke with my duty officer and he made a call to cleveland. They had reversed the decision and said they were wrong and I was correct.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: FLT CREW OF LJ35 AND CLE TRACON DISAGREE AS TO APPROPRIATE DEP PATH FROM RWY 23 AT LNN.
Narrative: DEPARTING LNN ON RWY 23 WHICH HAS AN OBSTACLE DEP FROM THAT RWY, WHICH STATES (ON COMMERCIAL CHART AERODROME SIDE) 'CLBING L HDG 180 DEGS UNTIL 1300 FT, THEN AS CLRED.' ON THAT IMC MORNING ON THE RWY, VIA CELL PHONE, RECEIVED A CLRNC FROM FSS THAT READ 'CLB HDG 320 DEGS, MAINTAIN 2000 FT, SQUAWK XXXX.' IN CONFLICT WITH THE OBSTACLE DEP. NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE TERRITORY, MY CO-CAPT AND I DISCUSSED PRIOR TO DEP THAT WE WERE GOING TO USE THE OBSTACLE DEP FOR RWY 23. WE WENT IN FRONT OF THE HANGAR TO VIEW 2 SMOKE STACKS WHICH WE COULDN'T SEE DUE TO POOR VISIBILITY AND CEILING. HE SAID 'WELL, THE WX IS TOO BAD TO SEE THEM AND OUR COMPANY PROC FOR DEPARTING IMC ON RWY 23 IS THAT OBSTACLE DEP PROC AND ZOB IS GOING TO YELL AT YOU, BUT THIS IS WHAT WE DO EVERY TIME WE DEPART RWY 23 IN IMC.' SO WE DEPARTED, FOLLOWED THE OBSTACLE DEP AND, SURE ENOUGH, ATC ASKED 'ACFT X, SAY HDG.' RESPONDED WITH 'DEPARTING LNN VIA 180 DEG HDG TILL 1300 FT AND IN THE TURN TO 320 DEGS.' ATC, 'THAT'S NOT [WHAT] WAS ASSIGNED.' WE WERE THEN QUESTIONED BY THE FOLLOWING CTLR 'WHY WERE YOU ON A 180 DEG HDG?' I RESPONDED WITH 'OBSTACLE DEP FROM LNN RWY 23.' ATC, 'WHEN YOU GET ON THE GND, CALL THIS NUMBER AT CLEVELAND APCH.' ONCE ON THE GND, SPOKE WITH ZOB. WENT THROUGH THE STEPS WITH HIM AND HE COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHY WE DID WHAT WE DID. HE REFERRED TO GOV CHARTS, I REFERRED TO COMMERCIAL CHARTS. I SAID 'THEY SHOULD SAY THE SAME THING.' NO ACTIONS TAKEN AGAINST ME. FOLLOWING MORNING, SPOKE WITH MY DUTY OFFICER AND HE MADE A CALL TO CLEVELAND. THEY HAD REVERSED THE DECISION AND SAID THEY WERE WRONG AND I WAS CORRECT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of July 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.