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B757 flight crew on descent for ewr is instructed by ZNY to ignore FARS regarding speed below 10000 ft in order to comply with crossing altitude.
| Attributes | |
| ACN | 663353 |
| Time | |
| Date | 200507 |
| Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
| Place | |
| Locale Reference | intersection : dylin |
| State Reference | NJ |
| Altitude | msl single value : 8000 |
| Environment | |
| Flight Conditions | VMC |
| Weather Elements | Thunderstorm |
| Light | Daylight |
| Aircraft 1 | |
| Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny.artcc |
| Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
| Make Model Name | B757-200 |
| Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
| Flight Phase | descent : approach descent : intermediate altitude |
| Route In Use | arrival star : dylin |
| Flight Plan | IFR |
| Person 1 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : first officer |
| ASRS Report | 663353 |
| Person 2 | |
| Affiliation | company : air carrier |
| Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
| ASRS Report | 663354 |
| Events | |
| Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence : far |
| Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
| Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
| Supplementary | |
| Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
| Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
It was a thunderstorm day as we were descending on the dylin 3 to ewr. We were deviating slightly west of course for a build-up when we were cleared from 15000 ft to 8000 ft. We then switched frequencys and I told ZNY that we were descending to 8000 ft but were not assigned that altitude at dylin. ZNY stated that we were to be at 8000 ft at dylin and the captain then told him that we were unable because of the 250 KTS below 10000 ft. ZNY told us to ignore the speed and get him the altitude. The captain queried the controller again; and the response was the same: forget the speed and cross dylin at 8000 ft. We accelerated to 320 KTS to get down and then slowed; but managed to cross dylin at 8000 ft and 280 KTS. We slowed to 250 KTS and the rest of the flight was uneventful. Obviously we were surprised by the clearance from ZNY but complied.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B757 FLT CREW ON DSCNT FOR EWR IS INSTRUCTED BY ZNY TO IGNORE FARS REGARDING SPD BELOW 10000 FT IN ORDER TO COMPLY WITH XING ALT.
Narrative: IT WAS A TSTM DAY AS WE WERE DSNDING ON THE DYLIN 3 TO EWR. WE WERE DEVIATING SLIGHTLY W OF COURSE FOR A BUILD-UP WHEN WE WERE CLRED FROM 15000 FT TO 8000 FT. WE THEN SWITCHED FREQS AND I TOLD ZNY THAT WE WERE DSNDING TO 8000 FT BUT WERE NOT ASSIGNED THAT ALT AT DYLIN. ZNY STATED THAT WE WERE TO BE AT 8000 FT AT DYLIN AND THE CAPT THEN TOLD HIM THAT WE WERE UNABLE BECAUSE OF THE 250 KTS BELOW 10000 FT. ZNY TOLD US TO IGNORE THE SPD AND GET HIM THE ALT. THE CAPT QUERIED THE CTLR AGAIN; AND THE RESPONSE WAS THE SAME: FORGET THE SPD AND CROSS DYLIN AT 8000 FT. WE ACCELERATED TO 320 KTS TO GET DOWN AND THEN SLOWED; BUT MANAGED TO CROSS DYLIN AT 8000 FT AND 280 KTS. WE SLOWED TO 250 KTS AND THE REST OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. OBVIOUSLY WE WERE SURPRISED BY THE CLRNC FROM ZNY BUT COMPLIED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.