37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 667808 |
Time | |
Date | 200508 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dlh.airport |
State Reference | MN |
Altitude | msl single value : 30000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zmp.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A319 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 170 flight time total : 10000 flight time type : 2400 |
ASRS Report | 667808 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 254 flight time total : 16000 flight time type : 784 |
ASRS Report | 667611 |
Events | |
Anomaly | airspace violation : exit non adherence : clearance non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : fmgc other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : overrode automation flight crew : returned to assigned airspace |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Company Aircraft |
Primary Problem | Aircraft |
Narrative:
En route from dca to msp; WX in msp. ATC offered holding at dlh or vectors south to rwf. Fuel considered. We opted holding at dlh (our filed altitude). ATC offered this within minutes of crossing the VOR. We programmed holding north on 360 degree radial at dlh as assigned at 30000 ft. Legs our discretion. We chose 20 miles legs and reported this to ATC. FMS displayed correct holding pattern. We manually slowed aircraft to holding speed while crossing VOR and the aircraft correctly depicted holding entry to right (started about 300 degree heading) to intercept outbound course depicted on FMS. Noting a very slow; gradual turn to outbound heading; the depicted holding pattern appeared wider than normal. We intervened to increase the rate of turn attempting to stay within holding airspace. Shortly after our intervention; ATC queried us as to our turn. We stated we were in the turn. We continued to manually hold. 1 day after this occurrence; our company issued an operations bulletin stating that the FMGC software; at high altitudes (above 24000 ft) or strong winds can alter size of holding pattern computed by the FMS and could be excessive. This may lead to flying outside protected airspace. The coincidence of our situation occurring at the time fleet bulletin was issued; leads us to believe this is a fleet wide anomaly. Callback conversation with reporter 667611 revealed the following information: reporter stated that this event is now well known at his air carrier and is being addressed by the aircraft mfg; the software mfg; and his company. This software has a number of anomalies that will be addressed in an early 2006 revision. The current software revision has several known bugs. The most obvious is the hold pattern error above 24000 ft or in high winds.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN A319 PLT COMMENTS ON THE EXCESSIVELY WIDE HOLDING PATTERN ABOVE FL240 AND IN HIGH WINDS COMPUTED BY THE FMGC MODIFICATION.
Narrative: ENRTE FROM DCA TO MSP; WX IN MSP. ATC OFFERED HOLDING AT DLH OR VECTORS S TO RWF. FUEL CONSIDERED. WE OPTED HOLDING AT DLH (OUR FILED ALT). ATC OFFERED THIS WITHIN MINUTES OF CROSSING THE VOR. WE PROGRAMMED HOLDING N ON 360 DEG RADIAL AT DLH AS ASSIGNED AT 30000 FT. LEGS OUR DISCRETION. WE CHOSE 20 MILES LEGS AND RPTED THIS TO ATC. FMS DISPLAYED CORRECT HOLDING PATTERN. WE MANUALLY SLOWED ACFT TO HOLDING SPD WHILE CROSSING VOR AND THE ACFT CORRECTLY DEPICTED HOLDING ENTRY TO RIGHT (STARTED ABOUT 300 DEG HDG) TO INTERCEPT OUTBOUND COURSE DEPICTED ON FMS. NOTING A VERY SLOW; GRADUAL TURN TO OUTBOUND HDG; THE DEPICTED HOLDING PATTERN APPEARED WIDER THAN NORMAL. WE INTERVENED TO INCREASE THE RATE OF TURN ATTEMPTING TO STAY WITHIN HOLDING AIRSPACE. SHORTLY AFTER OUR INTERVENTION; ATC QUERIED US AS TO OUR TURN. WE STATED WE WERE IN THE TURN. WE CONTINUED TO MANUALLY HOLD. 1 DAY AFTER THIS OCCURRENCE; OUR COMPANY ISSUED AN OPS BULLETIN STATING THAT THE FMGC SOFTWARE; AT HIGH ALTS (ABOVE 24000 FT) OR STRONG WINDS CAN ALTER SIZE OF HOLDING PATTERN COMPUTED BY THE FMS AND COULD BE EXCESSIVE. THIS MAY LEAD TO FLYING OUTSIDE PROTECTED AIRSPACE. THE COINCIDENCE OF OUR SIT OCCURRING AT THE TIME FLEET BULLETIN WAS ISSUED; LEADS US TO BELIEVE THIS IS A FLEET WIDE ANOMALY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR 667611 REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATED THAT THIS EVENT IS NOW WELL KNOWN AT HIS ACR AND IS BEING ADDRESSED BY THE ACFT MFG; THE SOFTWARE MFG; AND HIS COMPANY. THIS SOFTWARE HAS A NUMBER OF ANOMALIES THAT WILL BE ADDRESSED IN AN EARLY 2006 REVISION. THE CURRENT SOFTWARE REVISION HAS SEVERAL KNOWN BUGS. THE MOST OBVIOUS IS THE HOLD PATTERN ERROR ABOVE 24000 FT OR IN HIGH WINDS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.