B767 captain and pushback driver refuse to participate in subterfuge initiated by ramp personnel to ...

Attributes
ACN	669521
Time
Date	200508
Local Time Of Day	1201 To 1800
Place
Locale Reference	airport : lax.airport
State Reference	CA
Altitude	agl single value : 0
Aircraft 1
Controlling Facilities	tower : zzz.tower
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	B767-400 and 400 ER
Operating Under FAR Part	Part 121
Flight Phase	ground : pushback ground : parked
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Experience	flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 2000
ASRS Report	669521
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Events
Anomaly	non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	other
Consequence	other
Supplementary
Problem Areas	Company
Primary Problem	Company

Narrative:

5 mins before departure time; all doors closed. The captain said 'hello below.' ramp responded 'supervisor not going to load bags until parking brake released.' ramp didn't go into SOP phraseology so there we sat. Received ACARS message at XA50Z 'good day; can I plan you on-time?' captain did not respond because talking to ramp again. I have heard that a 'yes' response has triggered zone to doctor a late parking brake release time to show on-time. Eventually; cargo door opened; bags loaded; closed up; etc. Finally; ramp went into SOP phraseology about 'predep check complete;' and we responded with SOP callouts for an uneventful pushback. Months ago; this on-time game was being played. Personally; I don't mind releasing brakes 'if SOP followed' even if there are bags there. This event was stunning because the ramper on headset didn't volunteer more; nor did I. On pushback; I said 'you are aware that if you had said your correct phraseology about predep check; and then I responded; I would be happy to release brakes; even knowing you have bags.' he said 'I know.' at no time was he or I hostile or arrogant to the other. I wonder if he felt pressure from supervisor; offered me a clearly non stop offer; and didn't care what I did.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: B767 CAPT AND PUSHBACK DRIVER REFUSE TO PARTICIPATE IN SUBTERFUGE INITIATED BY RAMP PERSONNEL TO FAKE AN ON-TIME DEP CONTRARY TO COMPANY POLICY.

Narrative: 5 MINS BEFORE DEP TIME; ALL DOORS CLOSED. THE CAPT SAID 'HELLO BELOW.' RAMP RESPONDED 'SUPVR NOT GOING TO LOAD BAGS UNTIL PARKING BRAKE RELEASED.' RAMP DIDN'T GO INTO SOP PHRASEOLOGY SO THERE WE SAT. RECEIVED ACARS MESSAGE AT XA50Z 'GOOD DAY; CAN I PLAN YOU ON-TIME?' CAPT DID NOT RESPOND BECAUSE TALKING TO RAMP AGAIN. I HAVE HEARD THAT A 'YES' RESPONSE HAS TRIGGERED ZONE TO DOCTOR A LATE PARKING BRAKE RELEASE TIME TO SHOW ON-TIME. EVENTUALLY; CARGO DOOR OPENED; BAGS LOADED; CLOSED UP; ETC. FINALLY; RAMP WENT INTO SOP PHRASEOLOGY ABOUT 'PREDEP CHK COMPLETE;' AND WE RESPONDED WITH SOP CALLOUTS FOR AN UNEVENTFUL PUSHBACK. MONTHS AGO; THIS ON-TIME GAME WAS BEING PLAYED. PERSONALLY; I DON'T MIND RELEASING BRAKES 'IF SOP FOLLOWED' EVEN IF THERE ARE BAGS THERE. THIS EVENT WAS STUNNING BECAUSE THE RAMPER ON HEADSET DIDN'T VOLUNTEER MORE; NOR DID I. ON PUSHBACK; I SAID 'YOU ARE AWARE THAT IF YOU HAD SAID YOUR CORRECT PHRASEOLOGY ABOUT PREDEP CHK; AND THEN I RESPONDED; I WOULD BE HAPPY TO RELEASE BRAKES; EVEN KNOWING YOU HAVE BAGS.' HE SAID 'I KNOW.' AT NO TIME WAS HE OR I HOSTILE OR ARROGANT TO THE OTHER. I WONDER IF HE FELT PRESSURE FROM SUPVR; OFFERED ME A CLRLY NON STOP OFFER; AND DIDN'T CARE WHAT I DID.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.

B767 captain and pushback driver refuse to participate in subterfuge initiated by ramp personnel to fake an on-time departure contrary to company policy.