37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 681107 |
Time | |
Date | 200512 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : atl.airport |
State Reference | GA |
Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : a80.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : intermediate altitude climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure sid : bravs |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 14000 flight time type : 250 |
ASRS Report | 681107 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : far non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure other anomaly |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : overrode automation flight crew : regained aircraft control |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
The B757's FMS has a unique quirk that often causes airspeed to exceed 250 KTS below 10000 ft. On this particular flight; I was hand flying the braves RNAV departure out of atl. Initial clearance was to 10000 ft with planned cruise at FL400. Company policy has us use full climb power rather than derated to safe fuel; and the rate of climb was between 3000-4000 FPM. There is also a speed restr to stay at 250 KTS until a certain fix. Approaching 10000 ft with autothrottles engaged; I lowered the nose to reduce the climb rate. The autothrottles were slow to respond; so I pulled them back manually. At 10000 ft; the FMS switched from VNAV to level change; and the airspeed window opened at the current speed; which had climbed up to 260 KTS or 265 KTS. The autothrottles now attempted to maintain this speed in level flight. As the PF; and hand flying the RNAV departure; it is easy to become saturated. Flight path must remain precisely on track throughout the twisting departure; and the high climb rate must be reduced in the last 200 ft for passenger comfort as well as accurate leveloff at altitude without overshoot. Airspeed will sometimes come up above 250 KTS during this maneuver; and is exasperated by the FMS dropping out of VNAV into level change. An FAA inspector observing the flight commented on the speed and mentioned he had noticed the problem on other boeing products; including the B737 ng series. I will mention that with the autoplt engaged; the problem is rarely seen. As something practical; I have learned through this; now I plan to engage the autoplt if higher altitude has not been given 1000 ft prior to 10000 ft or other low altitude leveloffs until some sort of fix has been developed.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 PLT COMMENTS ON THE FMS CAPTURING A SPD WHILE LEVELING AT 10000 FT AND ALLOWING THE ACFT TO EXCEED 250 KTS BECAUSE THE CAPTURED SPD IS ABOVE 250 KTS.
Narrative: THE B757'S FMS HAS A UNIQUE QUIRK THAT OFTEN CAUSES AIRSPD TO EXCEED 250 KTS BELOW 10000 FT. ON THIS PARTICULAR FLT; I WAS HAND FLYING THE BRAVES RNAV DEP OUT OF ATL. INITIAL CLRNC WAS TO 10000 FT WITH PLANNED CRUISE AT FL400. COMPANY POLICY HAS US USE FULL CLB PWR RATHER THAN DERATED TO SAFE FUEL; AND THE RATE OF CLB WAS BTWN 3000-4000 FPM. THERE IS ALSO A SPD RESTR TO STAY AT 250 KTS UNTIL A CERTAIN FIX. APCHING 10000 FT WITH AUTOTHROTTLES ENGAGED; I LOWERED THE NOSE TO REDUCE THE CLB RATE. THE AUTOTHROTTLES WERE SLOW TO RESPOND; SO I PULLED THEM BACK MANUALLY. AT 10000 FT; THE FMS SWITCHED FROM VNAV TO LEVEL CHANGE; AND THE AIRSPD WINDOW OPENED AT THE CURRENT SPD; WHICH HAD CLBED UP TO 260 KTS OR 265 KTS. THE AUTOTHROTTLES NOW ATTEMPTED TO MAINTAIN THIS SPD IN LEVEL FLT. AS THE PF; AND HAND FLYING THE RNAV DEP; IT IS EASY TO BECOME SATURATED. FLT PATH MUST REMAIN PRECISELY ON TRACK THROUGHOUT THE TWISTING DEP; AND THE HIGH CLB RATE MUST BE REDUCED IN THE LAST 200 FT FOR PAX COMFORT AS WELL AS ACCURATE LEVELOFF AT ALT WITHOUT OVERSHOOT. AIRSPD WILL SOMETIMES COME UP ABOVE 250 KTS DURING THIS MANEUVER; AND IS EXASPERATED BY THE FMS DROPPING OUT OF VNAV INTO LEVEL CHANGE. AN FAA INSPECTOR OBSERVING THE FLT COMMENTED ON THE SPD AND MENTIONED HE HAD NOTICED THE PROB ON OTHER BOEING PRODUCTS; INCLUDING THE B737 NG SERIES. I WILL MENTION THAT WITH THE AUTOPLT ENGAGED; THE PROB IS RARELY SEEN. AS SOMETHING PRACTICAL; I HAVE LEARNED THROUGH THIS; NOW I PLAN TO ENGAGE THE AUTOPLT IF HIGHER ALT HAS NOT BEEN GIVEN 1000 FT PRIOR TO 10000 FT OR OTHER LOW ALT LEVELOFFS UNTIL SOME SORT OF FIX HAS BEEN DEVELOPED.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.