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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 681902 |
Time | |
Date | 200512 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : czul.artcc |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | msl single value : 13000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cyul.tracon |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Learjet 45 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | climbout : initial climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | departure sid : cedar |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : multi engine |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 200 flight time total : 7000 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 681902 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Chart Or Publication |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Situations | |
Chart | star : cyul franx.cedar 7 |
Narrative:
Given runway 24L at cyul. We were on the franx.cedar 7 STAR. We programmed the FMS; but the FMS would not input this STAR into our route. The route and altitude of this STAR was manually built into the FMS. Both pilots reviewed the STAR and manually built FMS procedure. While flying the procedure on autoplt off of the FMS route; we were told to turn left to a heading after we already started a right turn at 'comav' fix. We were told that we had turned the wrong way. No separation from obstacles or aircraft was ever in jeopardy. After review of the procedure we realized the course expected. The STAR procedure is not clearly written. It is an RNAV STAR; but if manually built; this problem is likely to occur with other crews. Nowhere on the chart does it specify which 'dtw' to fly to for specific runways. The right turn we made; we thought; was for a left downwind to runway 24L (using 'dtw' ebgur). A change in wording to this procedure would prevent any confusion. For example a note saying: use 'XXX' dtw for runway 28; 'YYY' dtw for runway 24L/right. We notified our company and they agreed it is confusing as written. They will add a note on itineraries in future for crews to be careful on this STAR procedure.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN LR45 CREW COMMENTS THAT CYUL FRANX.CEDAR7 STAR WORDING DOES NOT CLEARLY DESCRIBE THE RWY 24L/R AND RWY 28 TRANSITIONS; CAUSING CONFUSION.
Narrative: GIVEN RWY 24L AT CYUL. WE WERE ON THE FRANX.CEDAR 7 STAR. WE PROGRAMMED THE FMS; BUT THE FMS WOULD NOT INPUT THIS STAR INTO OUR RTE. THE RTE AND ALT OF THIS STAR WAS MANUALLY BUILT INTO THE FMS. BOTH PLTS REVIEWED THE STAR AND MANUALLY BUILT FMS PROC. WHILE FLYING THE PROC ON AUTOPLT OFF OF THE FMS RTE; WE WERE TOLD TO TURN L TO A HDG AFTER WE ALREADY STARTED A R TURN AT 'COMAV' FIX. WE WERE TOLD THAT WE HAD TURNED THE WRONG WAY. NO SEPARATION FROM OBSTACLES OR ACFT WAS EVER IN JEOPARDY. AFTER REVIEW OF THE PROC WE REALIZED THE COURSE EXPECTED. THE STAR PROC IS NOT CLEARLY WRITTEN. IT IS AN RNAV STAR; BUT IF MANUALLY BUILT; THIS PROBLEM IS LIKELY TO OCCUR WITH OTHER CREWS. NOWHERE ON THE CHART DOES IT SPECIFY WHICH 'DTW' TO FLY TO FOR SPECIFIC RWYS. THE R TURN WE MADE; WE THOUGHT; WAS FOR A L DOWNWIND TO RWY 24L (USING 'DTW' EBGUR). A CHANGE IN WORDING TO THIS PROC WOULD PREVENT ANY CONFUSION. FOR EXAMPLE A NOTE SAYING: USE 'XXX' DTW FOR RWY 28; 'YYY' DTW FOR RWY 24L/R. WE NOTIFIED OUR COMPANY AND THEY AGREED IT IS CONFUSING AS WRITTEN. THEY WILL ADD A NOTE ON ITINERARIES IN FUTURE FOR CREWS TO BE CAREFUL ON THIS STAR PROC.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.