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Attributes | |
ACN | 704338 |
Time | |
Date | 200607 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | navaid : cri.vor |
State Reference | NY |
Altitude | msl single value : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other other vortac |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff climbout : initial |
Route In Use | departure sid : jfk |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 210 flight time total : 8000 flight time type : 3200 |
ASRS Report | 704338 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : clearance other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Company |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Thunderstorms delayed our departure by 5 hours. Our original clearance was jfk 9 departure; fly runway heading. When contacting ground control; we had a re-file. After re-filing our flight plan; ground said to monitor clearance delivery for new route. Jfk.9 departure with breezy point climb was issued. I put the breezy point climb in the FMS. 30 mins later; ground control said to monitor clearance for another route change. Subsequently ground gave some taxi instructions while clearance gave route instructions to the captain. I asked if everything on the clearance was the same as when we re-filed. Captain said yes; except further down the line (away from new york). 15-20 mins later; we were cleared for takeoff. Captain verified canarsie. Controller repeated canarsie. In my mind; canarsie meant (not runway heading); still cleared ken.9 (jfk.9) departure and breezy point climb. The controller meant canarsie climb; not direct canarsie VOR. Jfk.9 goes direct cri VOR then different climbs are available. I still believed the breezy point climb was our clearance. For the captain said nothing changed. Actually the canarsie climb was the clearance and the captain thought that is what was in the FMS (actually breezy point was in). Over the cri VOR; a vector to 090 degree heading was given (which is standard occurrence). The controller then asked why we didn't turn on the canarsie climb. We were just past the cri VOR when his vector to 090 degrees was given; therefore; I don't believe any airspace violation occurred; but since the FMS usually leads the VOR; the controller could see something wasn't quite the same as all the other aircraft. We said we would check our inputs to the FMS to see what the difference might be. Again; I believe most aircraft were getting a vector off the departure near the cri VOR; as did we; therefore; we had yet to fly any climb portion of the departure. The controller must have seen we did not lead the turn as the other FMS aircraft -- yet in my opinion; we were still within tolerance. Having a canarsie climb along with other clbouts all starting at the canarsie VOR; led to some of my confusion when the captain and controller verified 'canarsie.'
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B757 FLT CREW DEPARTING JFK ON THE JFK 9 DEP HAD THE WRONG CLB TRANSITION ENTERED IN THE FMS.
Narrative: TSTMS DELAYED OUR DEP BY 5 HRS. OUR ORIGINAL CLRNC WAS JFK 9 DEP; FLY RWY HDG. WHEN CONTACTING GND CTL; WE HAD A RE-FILE. AFTER RE-FILING OUR FLT PLAN; GND SAID TO MONITOR CLRNC DELIVERY FOR NEW RTE. JFK.9 DEP WITH BREEZY POINT CLB WAS ISSUED. I PUT THE BREEZY POINT CLB IN THE FMS. 30 MINS LATER; GND CTL SAID TO MONITOR CLRNC FOR ANOTHER RTE CHANGE. SUBSEQUENTLY GND GAVE SOME TAXI INSTRUCTIONS WHILE CLRNC GAVE RTE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE CAPT. I ASKED IF EVERYTHING ON THE CLRNC WAS THE SAME AS WHEN WE RE-FILED. CAPT SAID YES; EXCEPT FURTHER DOWN THE LINE (AWAY FROM NEW YORK). 15-20 MINS LATER; WE WERE CLRED FOR TKOF. CAPT VERIFIED CANARSIE. CTLR REPEATED CANARSIE. IN MY MIND; CANARSIE MEANT (NOT RWY HDG); STILL CLRED KEN.9 (JFK.9) DEP AND BREEZY POINT CLB. THE CTLR MEANT CANARSIE CLB; NOT DIRECT CANARSIE VOR. JFK.9 GOES DIRECT CRI VOR THEN DIFFERENT CLBS ARE AVAILABLE. I STILL BELIEVED THE BREEZY POINT CLB WAS OUR CLRNC. FOR THE CAPT SAID NOTHING CHANGED. ACTUALLY THE CANARSIE CLB WAS THE CLRNC AND THE CAPT THOUGHT THAT IS WHAT WAS IN THE FMS (ACTUALLY BREEZY POINT WAS IN). OVER THE CRI VOR; A VECTOR TO 090 DEG HDG WAS GIVEN (WHICH IS STANDARD OCCURRENCE). THE CTLR THEN ASKED WHY WE DIDN'T TURN ON THE CANARSIE CLB. WE WERE JUST PAST THE CRI VOR WHEN HIS VECTOR TO 090 DEGS WAS GIVEN; THEREFORE; I DON'T BELIEVE ANY AIRSPACE VIOLATION OCCURRED; BUT SINCE THE FMS USUALLY LEADS THE VOR; THE CTLR COULD SEE SOMETHING WASN'T QUITE THE SAME AS ALL THE OTHER ACFT. WE SAID WE WOULD CHK OUR INPUTS TO THE FMS TO SEE WHAT THE DIFFERENCE MIGHT BE. AGAIN; I BELIEVE MOST ACFT WERE GETTING A VECTOR OFF THE DEP NEAR THE CRI VOR; AS DID WE; THEREFORE; WE HAD YET TO FLY ANY CLB PORTION OF THE DEP. THE CTLR MUST HAVE SEEN WE DID NOT LEAD THE TURN AS THE OTHER FMS ACFT -- YET IN MY OPINION; WE WERE STILL WITHIN TOLERANCE. HAVING A CANARSIE CLB ALONG WITH OTHER CLBOUTS ALL STARTING AT THE CANARSIE VOR; LED TO SOME OF MY CONFUSION WHEN THE CAPT AND CTLR VERIFIED 'CANARSIE.'
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.