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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 709842 |
Time | |
Date | 200609 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dfw.airport |
State Reference | TX |
Altitude | msl single value : 1000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-80 Series (DC-9-80) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : visual |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : dfw.tower |
Make Model Name | Helicopter |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 709842 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
ASRS Report | 709845 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment : tcas |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued alert none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Airport Airspace Structure |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
After being cleared for a visual approach to runway 36L and as we were on about a 5-6 mi final; the tower informed us of helicopter traffic in our 10-11 O'clock position at 10000 ft heading from west to east along highway 183. We did not have the traffic in sight but saw what we believed to be the traffic on the TCAS at our 11 O'clock position 800 ft below us. I was very concerned; as it appeared by our descent angle that we would be crossing highway 183 at about 1000 ft. We still did not southeast the traffic when tower informed us that the helicopter had us in sight. With that information; we continued the uncomfortable approach; straining to see the helicopter. We never saw the traffic but the last I saw on the TCAS was 100 ft below at almost the 12 O'clock position. The remainder of the flight was uneventful. Back in operations; I called the west tower supervisor to query them as to whether this was SOP to have co-altitude traffic crossing the short final approach course. She said that if they were busy and the helicopter traffic was distracting to the controllers; then they made them go farther south. I brought up the possibility of having the helicopter cross at 500 ft or just not be on short final as it was extremely distracting to us. She said that they just have to be below 1000 ft. Along with the obvious midair safety considerations and distraction problem; it would also seem prudent; from a commercial airline security standpoint; to not allow traffic to be so close that it could possibly cause a problem. The tower supervisor said they would review their procedure. Supplemental information from acn 709845: cleared for visual approach runway 36L at dfw. Tower advised of traffic ahead while we were on base leg (which we spotted). Later; while at about 1000 ft AGL; we were advised of rotor wing traffic at our 10-11 O'clock position close-in which we did not spot. We were low enough that much of my focus as PF was actually directed toward getting the aircraft in a safe position/condition to land so much of my attention was directed inside and straight ahead. I did notice during my last scan for the traffic that he appeared on the TCAS screen; close-in; at 11 O'clock position and then the target disappeared. Was surprised we didn't get a warning. The actual helicopter certainly didn't disappear; but I never acquired visual contact -- even though tower said he had us in sight. A little disconcerting and; if it's a standard practice; I question how safe it might be. We landed uneventfully.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD80 CREW HAS CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH HELI ON VISUAL APCH TO RWY 36L AT DFW.
Narrative: AFTER BEING CLRED FOR A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 36L AND AS WE WERE ON ABOUT A 5-6 MI FINAL; THE TWR INFORMED US OF HELI TFC IN OUR 10-11 O'CLOCK POS AT 10000 FT HDG FROM W TO E ALONG HWY 183. WE DID NOT HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT BUT SAW WHAT WE BELIEVED TO BE THE TFC ON THE TCAS AT OUR 11 O'CLOCK POS 800 FT BELOW US. I WAS VERY CONCERNED; AS IT APPEARED BY OUR DSCNT ANGLE THAT WE WOULD BE XING HWY 183 AT ABOUT 1000 FT. WE STILL DID NOT SE THE TFC WHEN TWR INFORMED US THAT THE HELI HAD US IN SIGHT. WITH THAT INFO; WE CONTINUED THE UNCOMFORTABLE APCH; STRAINING TO SEE THE HELI. WE NEVER SAW THE TFC BUT THE LAST I SAW ON THE TCAS WAS 100 FT BELOW AT ALMOST THE 12 O'CLOCK POS. THE REMAINDER OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. BACK IN OPS; I CALLED THE W TWR SUPVR TO QUERY THEM AS TO WHETHER THIS WAS SOP TO HAVE CO-ALT TFC XING THE SHORT FINAL APCH COURSE. SHE SAID THAT IF THEY WERE BUSY AND THE HELI TFC WAS DISTRACTING TO THE CTLRS; THEN THEY MADE THEM GO FARTHER S. I BROUGHT UP THE POSSIBILITY OF HAVING THE HELI CROSS AT 500 FT OR JUST NOT BE ON SHORT FINAL AS IT WAS EXTREMELY DISTRACTING TO US. SHE SAID THAT THEY JUST HAVE TO BE BELOW 1000 FT. ALONG WITH THE OBVIOUS MIDAIR SAFETY CONSIDERATIONS AND DISTR PROB; IT WOULD ALSO SEEM PRUDENT; FROM A COMMERCIAL AIRLINE SECURITY STANDPOINT; TO NOT ALLOW TFC TO BE SO CLOSE THAT IT COULD POSSIBLY CAUSE A PROB. THE TWR SUPVR SAID THEY WOULD REVIEW THEIR PROC. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 709845: CLRED FOR VISUAL APCH RWY 36L AT DFW. TWR ADVISED OF TFC AHEAD WHILE WE WERE ON BASE LEG (WHICH WE SPOTTED). LATER; WHILE AT ABOUT 1000 FT AGL; WE WERE ADVISED OF ROTOR WING TFC AT OUR 10-11 O'CLOCK POS CLOSE-IN WHICH WE DID NOT SPOT. WE WERE LOW ENOUGH THAT MUCH OF MY FOCUS AS PF WAS ACTUALLY DIRECTED TOWARD GETTING THE ACFT IN A SAFE POS/CONDITION TO LAND SO MUCH OF MY ATTN WAS DIRECTED INSIDE AND STRAIGHT AHEAD. I DID NOTICE DURING MY LAST SCAN FOR THE TFC THAT HE APPEARED ON THE TCAS SCREEN; CLOSE-IN; AT 11 O'CLOCK POS AND THEN THE TARGET DISAPPEARED. WAS SURPRISED WE DIDN'T GET A WARNING. THE ACTUAL HELI CERTAINLY DIDN'T DISAPPEAR; BUT I NEVER ACQUIRED VISUAL CONTACT -- EVEN THOUGH TWR SAID HE HAD US IN SIGHT. A LITTLE DISCONCERTING AND; IF IT'S A STANDARD PRACTICE; I QUESTION HOW SAFE IT MIGHT BE. WE LANDED UNEVENTFULLY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.