37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 716253 |
Time | |
Date | 200611 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lgb.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl single value : 500 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lgb.tower |
Operator | general aviation : corporate |
Make Model Name | Light Transport Low Wing 2 Turboprop Eng |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lgb.tower |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 176 flight time total : 5844 flight time type : 872 |
ASRS Report | 716253 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : corporate |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : ground less severe |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Narrative:
We were on final approach to lgb runway 30. Tower had asked us to land and hold short. I asked for runway remaining. We seemed to be speaking at cross purposes. Tower stated it again and I again asked runway remaining. The next thing I see; an aircraft is landing on runway 25L in front of us. We landed without incident until my copilot (PF) tried to turn on runway 25R and I caught it and we exited at bravo taxiway. After we shut down; I looked at the airport diagram. There is no way we could have held short of runway 25L and I was thinking runway 25R in the clearance. A couple of confounding issues here: 1) I think tower confused us with a single engine aircraft. We are a twin engine turboprop with a landing reference speed of 121 KTS. 2) once we brief the approach; the efbs go on the floor and it requires a head turning; arm reaching major movement to get to them; hence my questions of tower. We have a small cockpit and large; heavy efbs. I have tried everything but there is nowhere to place them that they can be seen while flying without creating a hazard. I have had them slide between rudder pedals; cover instruments; move the flap handle; slide back out of reach; you name it. On apches in instrument conditions; we rewrite the whole approach on pads on the yoke and have; of course; made mistakes. These efbs are wonderful planning tools but as far a practical cockpit device; they are extremely dangerous and require all the things we have learned from years of aircraft accidents to not do! Also; it is amazing how many airports around the country would benefit from the low tech solutions of new paint and more airport signs. Lgb has got to be one of the most confusing airports and I have seen the FAA tape and been there many times.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A P180 FLT CREW ON APCH TO LGB WAS CLEARED TO HOLD SHORT OF RWY 25L. CREW THOUGHT THE HOLD SHORT WAS FOR RWY 25R; CAUSING A CONFLICT WITH ACFT LNDG RWY 25L.
Narrative: WE WERE ON FINAL APCH TO LGB RWY 30. TWR HAD ASKED US TO LAND AND HOLD SHORT. I ASKED FOR RWY REMAINING. WE SEEMED TO BE SPEAKING AT CROSS PURPOSES. TWR STATED IT AGAIN AND I AGAIN ASKED RWY REMAINING. THE NEXT THING I SEE; AN ACFT IS LNDG ON RUNWAY 25L IN FRONT OF US. WE LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT UNTIL MY COPLT (PF) TRIED TO TURN ON RWY 25R AND I CAUGHT IT AND WE EXITED AT BRAVO TXWY. AFTER WE SHUT DOWN; I LOOKED AT THE ARPT DIAGRAM. THERE IS NO WAY WE COULD HAVE HELD SHORT OF RWY 25L AND I WAS THINKING RWY 25R IN THE CLRNC. A COUPLE OF CONFOUNDING ISSUES HERE: 1) I THINK TWR CONFUSED US WITH A SINGLE ENG ACFT. WE ARE A TWIN ENG TURBOPROP WITH A LNDG REF SPD OF 121 KTS. 2) ONCE WE BRIEF THE APCH; THE EFBS GO ON THE FLOOR AND IT REQUIRES A HEAD TURNING; ARM REACHING MAJOR MOVEMENT TO GET TO THEM; HENCE MY QUESTIONS OF TWR. WE HAVE A SMALL COCKPIT AND LARGE; HEAVY EFBS. I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING BUT THERE IS NOWHERE TO PLACE THEM THAT THEY CAN BE SEEN WHILE FLYING WITHOUT CREATING A HAZARD. I HAVE HAD THEM SLIDE BETWEEN RUDDER PEDALS; COVER INSTRUMENTS; MOVE THE FLAP HANDLE; SLIDE BACK OUT OF REACH; YOU NAME IT. ON APCHES IN INSTRUMENT CONDITIONS; WE REWRITE THE WHOLE APCH ON PADS ON THE YOKE AND HAVE; OF COURSE; MADE MISTAKES. THESE EFBS ARE WONDERFUL PLANNING TOOLS BUT AS FAR A PRACTICAL COCKPIT DEVICE; THEY ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND REQUIRE ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED FROM YEARS OF ACFT ACCIDENTS TO NOT DO! ALSO; IT IS AMAZING HOW MANY ARPTS AROUND THE COUNTRY WOULD BENEFIT FROM THE LOW TECH SOLUTIONS OF NEW PAINT AND MORE ARPT SIGNS. LGB HAS GOT TO BE ONE OF THE MOST CONFUSING ARPTS AND I HAVE SEEN THE FAA TAPE AND BEEN THERE MANY TIMES.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.