37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 719730 |
Time | |
Date | 200612 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mmun.airport |
State Reference | FO |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC VMC |
Light | Dusk |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737-800 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : preflight ground : parked |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
ASRS Report | 719730 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
A union representative called me. He told me that there were claims being made (I don't know by whom) that some airplanes had recently left mmun with ice on the wings. He told me that my airplane may have been one of those involved. I was astonished. These were the circumstances: this was the first time the first officer or I had ever been to mmun. Our crew van pick-up at the hotel was half an hour late. From the gate; we had to be bussed to the plane before any of our passenger could then arrive via multiple bus shuttles. So; of course; we were late. I was fully involved in the process of scrutinizing our flight plan and obtaining and verifying IFR clrncs for the class 2 navigation across the gulf of mexico. Because of poor clearance delivery radio quality; accented english; multiple revisions and other points of ambiguity; it was a long struggle. However; even if the conditions of preflight preparations had been ideal; the thought of ice on the wings would have been one of the last things I would have considered. The temperature was in the 80's. I have seen frost form on the underside of B737 wings before due to cold-soaked fuel. When this happens it is easy to see and; with the outside air temperature in the 80's; would be dripping on the head of whomever is doing the preflight. However; I have never seen or heard of frost or ice forming on the top surface of a B737 wing when the outside air temperature is in the 80's; and if it were to happen; I would surely expect that the wing's underside would also be involved. The first officer; whom I have found to be careful and diligent; did not report anything unusual after his preflight. Because he saw nothing; it never occurred to me to ask about ice on top of the wings. I presume this matter is about ice/frost on top of the wing; because up to 1/8TH inch of frost is permitted on the underside. If there were indeed ice or frost on the top surface of the wing; and if I had known about it; I would never have left the ramp. If ice/frost is forming on the top surface of B737 wings; crews need to be informed about this possibility. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states that the allegation made against the crew was general in nature and that he is positive he did not depart with ice on his wings.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 CREW IS INFORMED AFTER THE FACT THAT THEY MAY HAVE DEPARTED MMUN WITH ICE ON THE WINGS.
Narrative: A UNION REPRESENTATIVE CALLED ME. HE TOLD ME THAT THERE WERE CLAIMS BEING MADE (I DON'T KNOW BY WHOM) THAT SOME AIRPLANES HAD RECENTLY LEFT MMUN WITH ICE ON THE WINGS. HE TOLD ME THAT MY AIRPLANE MAY HAVE BEEN ONE OF THOSE INVOLVED. I WAS ASTONISHED. THESE WERE THE CIRCUMSTANCES: THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THE FO OR I HAD EVER BEEN TO MMUN. OUR CREW VAN PICK-UP AT THE HOTEL WAS HALF AN HR LATE. FROM THE GATE; WE HAD TO BE BUSSED TO THE PLANE BEFORE ANY OF OUR PAX COULD THEN ARRIVE VIA MULTIPLE BUS SHUTTLES. SO; OF COURSE; WE WERE LATE. I WAS FULLY INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS OF SCRUTINIZING OUR FLT PLAN AND OBTAINING AND VERIFYING IFR CLRNCS FOR THE CLASS 2 NAV ACROSS THE GULF OF MEXICO. BECAUSE OF POOR CLRNC DELIVERY RADIO QUALITY; ACCENTED ENGLISH; MULTIPLE REVISIONS AND OTHER POINTS OF AMBIGUITY; IT WAS A LONG STRUGGLE. HOWEVER; EVEN IF THE CONDITIONS OF PREFLT PREPARATIONS HAD BEEN IDEAL; THE THOUGHT OF ICE ON THE WINGS WOULD HAVE BEEN ONE OF THE LAST THINGS I WOULD HAVE CONSIDERED. THE TEMP WAS IN THE 80'S. I HAVE SEEN FROST FORM ON THE UNDERSIDE OF B737 WINGS BEFORE DUE TO COLD-SOAKED FUEL. WHEN THIS HAPPENS IT IS EASY TO SEE AND; WITH THE OUTSIDE AIR TEMP IN THE 80'S; WOULD BE DRIPPING ON THE HEAD OF WHOMEVER IS DOING THE PREFLT. HOWEVER; I HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD OF FROST OR ICE FORMING ON THE TOP SURFACE OF A B737 WING WHEN THE OUTSIDE AIR TEMP IS IN THE 80'S; AND IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN; I WOULD SURELY EXPECT THAT THE WING'S UNDERSIDE WOULD ALSO BE INVOLVED. THE FO; WHOM I HAVE FOUND TO BE CAREFUL AND DILIGENT; DID NOT RPT ANYTHING UNUSUAL AFTER HIS PREFLT. BECAUSE HE SAW NOTHING; IT NEVER OCCURRED TO ME TO ASK ABOUT ICE ON TOP OF THE WINGS. I PRESUME THIS MATTER IS ABOUT ICE/FROST ON TOP OF THE WING; BECAUSE UP TO 1/8TH INCH OF FROST IS PERMITTED ON THE UNDERSIDE. IF THERE WERE INDEED ICE OR FROST ON THE TOP SURFACE OF THE WING; AND IF I HAD KNOWN ABOUT IT; I WOULD NEVER HAVE LEFT THE RAMP. IF ICE/FROST IS FORMING ON THE TOP SURFACE OF B737 WINGS; CREWS NEED TO BE INFORMED ABOUT THIS POSSIBILITY. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: RPTR STATES THAT THE ALLEGATION MADE AGAINST THE CREW WAS GENERAL IN NATURE AND THAT HE IS POSITIVE HE DID NOT DEPART WITH ICE ON HIS WINGS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.