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Attributes | |
ACN | 761854 |
Time | |
Date | 200711 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
State Reference | US |
Altitude | msl single value : 1200 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Weather Elements | Rain |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : zzz.tracon |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | EMB ERJ 145 ER&LR |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other vortac |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 110 flight time type : 3800 |
ASRS Report | 761854 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight attendant : on duty |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : company policies non adherence : published procedure other anomaly other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | aircraft equipment other aircraft equipment : eicas other other : 2 |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : declared emergency other |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance Aircraft |
Primary Problem | Aircraft |
Narrative:
I was the captain of this flight. During initial climb out from ZZZ on the 185 degree radial from ZZZ VOR; we received 'lavatory smoke' EICAS. The message appeared along with the fire bell in the cabin right after we applied 'climb thrust' power setting. The warning came on and then went off between 10-15 seconds. Before I could even get to the table of contents on the QRH the indication had disappeared. I called the flight attendant and she said that there was absolutely no smoke or fire in the lavatory or any of its compartments whatsoever and that the alarm had ceased a few seconds after it began. She asked passenger if anybody smelled anything like smoke or anything burning. Nobody smelled anything. We ran the lavatory smoke checklist which involves pulling 2 circuit breakers for the lavatory flusher and the lights and then refers you to 'cabin fire or smoke' checklists. The conditions did not apply for this one; so we continued the lavatory smoke checklist which ends with 'evacuate/evacuation-consider.' I didn't believe an evacuate/evacuation was necessary. We informed ATC of what had happened right away and told them that we needed a heading straight ahead and to please stand by in case we decided a diversion was necessary. I asked the flight attendant again about smoke; fire; smoke odor or any indication whatsoever. She said 'no; nothing.' I took a second scan at the checklist and then put it away. We both agreed that this was a false indication and that it had stopped. I decided to continue to ZZZ2 and not declare an emergency. When we arrived in ZZZ2 and wrote up the problem; maintenance said that the smoke detector looked very dirty and that we probably got a false indication when we pressurized. On this airplane; messages will sometimes appear and then go away. I felt that this was a false indication and continued to my destination. The message came on and then went away before I could even get to the checklist. There were simply no fire conditions present. I consulted the operations manual after the flight which states that any fire or indication of fire constitutes an emergency; and that ATC should be advised of the emergency. Before I ever had a chance to talk with ATC about it and while we were still assessing the problem; all indications were gone. In fact; the only indication was the fire alarm. No smoke; fire or odor. I told myself that I would declare an emergency the next time that this happened to me and return to the airport or divert. Ironically; it happened 2 days later in the same airplane. This flight brought me the same message at nearly the same time during flight. This time; we had a gear problem as well. The landing gear didn't want to retract when we took off. While I was transmitting to ATC that we'd be returning to land in ZZZ2; the master warning went off with a lavatory smoke EICAS. The flight attendant knew this drill well after the first incident as well as I. This time was different. The fire bell in the cabin stayed on to 3-4 mins and the flight attendant said that she and a deadheading crew member in the back smelled something funny; like a dirty furnace or something hot and dusty. We donned masks and goggles and completed memory items for cabin fire or smoke. I then declared an emergency with ATC. We accomplished all checklists and the flight attendant said that the indication was gone and so was the odor in the back. I doublechked for conditions just before starting the approach and then right after we cleared the runway. She said everything was ok. I felt that there was no need to evacuate/evacuation at that time so we returned to the gate and let the passenger off there. First the gear wouldn't go up and then the fire alarm -- one right after the other. We were busy under the masks and goggles that's for sure. This time an emergency was declared like the operations manual said to do; and this time it seemed like the right thing to do. I had shared my first story with a couple other check airmen and they thought I'd made a clean decision during the first flight. I think I may tell them that perhaps it wasn't if I'd taken the operations manual literally. Even if I had declared an emergency on the first flight; should I have canceled it 20 seconds later when the alarm ceased? I recommend training to new hires regarding these EICAS messages that come on and then go away immediately. It tends to leave an impression that it's a false indication or that the problem has gone away.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: E145 FLT CREW ENCOUNTERS MOMENTARY LAV SMOKE EICAS MSG UNSUPPORTED BY VISUAL INSPECTION. INDICATION IS DISREGARDED. SUBSEQUENT FLT ON SAME ACFT RESULTS IN REPEAT MSG AND AN EMERGENCY IS DECLARED AND RETURN TO TKOF ARPT ACCOMPLISHED.
Narrative: I WAS THE CAPT OF THIS FLT. DURING INITIAL CLBOUT FROM ZZZ ON THE 185 DEG RADIAL FROM ZZZ VOR; WE RECEIVED 'LAVATORY SMOKE' EICAS. THE MESSAGE APPEARED ALONG WITH THE FIRE BELL IN THE CABIN RIGHT AFTER WE APPLIED 'CLB THRUST' PWR SETTING. THE WARNING CAME ON AND THEN WENT OFF BTWN 10-15 SECONDS. BEFORE I COULD EVEN GET TO THE TABLE OF CONTENTS ON THE QRH THE INDICATION HAD DISAPPEARED. I CALLED THE FLT ATTENDANT AND SHE SAID THAT THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO SMOKE OR FIRE IN THE LAVATORY OR ANY OF ITS COMPARTMENTS WHATSOEVER AND THAT THE ALARM HAD CEASED A FEW SECONDS AFTER IT BEGAN. SHE ASKED PAX IF ANYBODY SMELLED ANYTHING LIKE SMOKE OR ANYTHING BURNING. NOBODY SMELLED ANYTHING. WE RAN THE LAVATORY SMOKE CHKLIST WHICH INVOLVES PULLING 2 CIRCUIT BREAKERS FOR THE LAVATORY FLUSHER AND THE LIGHTS AND THEN REFERS YOU TO 'CABIN FIRE OR SMOKE' CHKLISTS. THE CONDITIONS DID NOT APPLY FOR THIS ONE; SO WE CONTINUED THE LAVATORY SMOKE CHKLIST WHICH ENDS WITH 'EVAC-CONSIDER.' I DIDN'T BELIEVE AN EVAC WAS NECESSARY. WE INFORMED ATC OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED RIGHT AWAY AND TOLD THEM THAT WE NEEDED A HDG STRAIGHT AHEAD AND TO PLEASE STAND BY IN CASE WE DECIDED A DIVERSION WAS NECESSARY. I ASKED THE FLT ATTENDANT AGAIN ABOUT SMOKE; FIRE; SMOKE ODOR OR ANY INDICATION WHATSOEVER. SHE SAID 'NO; NOTHING.' I TOOK A SECOND SCAN AT THE CHKLIST AND THEN PUT IT AWAY. WE BOTH AGREED THAT THIS WAS A FALSE INDICATION AND THAT IT HAD STOPPED. I DECIDED TO CONTINUE TO ZZZ2 AND NOT DECLARE AN EMER. WHEN WE ARRIVED IN ZZZ2 AND WROTE UP THE PROB; MAINT SAID THAT THE SMOKE DETECTOR LOOKED VERY DIRTY AND THAT WE PROBABLY GOT A FALSE INDICATION WHEN WE PRESSURIZED. ON THIS AIRPLANE; MESSAGES WILL SOMETIMES APPEAR AND THEN GO AWAY. I FELT THAT THIS WAS A FALSE INDICATION AND CONTINUED TO MY DEST. THE MESSAGE CAME ON AND THEN WENT AWAY BEFORE I COULD EVEN GET TO THE CHKLIST. THERE WERE SIMPLY NO FIRE CONDITIONS PRESENT. I CONSULTED THE OPS MANUAL AFTER THE FLT WHICH STATES THAT ANY FIRE OR INDICATION OF FIRE CONSTITUTES AN EMER; AND THAT ATC SHOULD BE ADVISED OF THE EMER. BEFORE I EVER HAD A CHANCE TO TALK WITH ATC ABOUT IT AND WHILE WE WERE STILL ASSESSING THE PROB; ALL INDICATIONS WERE GONE. IN FACT; THE ONLY INDICATION WAS THE FIRE ALARM. NO SMOKE; FIRE OR ODOR. I TOLD MYSELF THAT I WOULD DECLARE AN EMER THE NEXT TIME THAT THIS HAPPENED TO ME AND RETURN TO THE ARPT OR DIVERT. IRONICALLY; IT HAPPENED 2 DAYS LATER IN THE SAME AIRPLANE. THIS FLT BROUGHT ME THE SAME MESSAGE AT NEARLY THE SAME TIME DURING FLT. THIS TIME; WE HAD A GEAR PROB AS WELL. THE LNDG GEAR DIDN'T WANT TO RETRACT WHEN WE TOOK OFF. WHILE I WAS XMITTING TO ATC THAT WE'D BE RETURNING TO LAND IN ZZZ2; THE MASTER WARNING WENT OFF WITH A LAVATORY SMOKE EICAS. THE FLT ATTENDANT KNEW THIS DRILL WELL AFTER THE FIRST INCIDENT AS WELL AS I. THIS TIME WAS DIFFERENT. THE FIRE BELL IN THE CABIN STAYED ON TO 3-4 MINS AND THE FLT ATTENDANT SAID THAT SHE AND A DEADHEADING CREW MEMBER IN THE BACK SMELLED SOMETHING FUNNY; LIKE A DIRTY FURNACE OR SOMETHING HOT AND DUSTY. WE DONNED MASKS AND GOGGLES AND COMPLETED MEMORY ITEMS FOR CABIN FIRE OR SMOKE. I THEN DECLARED AN EMER WITH ATC. WE ACCOMPLISHED ALL CHKLISTS AND THE FLT ATTENDANT SAID THAT THE INDICATION WAS GONE AND SO WAS THE ODOR IN THE BACK. I DOUBLECHKED FOR CONDITIONS JUST BEFORE STARTING THE APCH AND THEN RIGHT AFTER WE CLRED THE RWY. SHE SAID EVERYTHING WAS OK. I FELT THAT THERE WAS NO NEED TO EVAC AT THAT TIME SO WE RETURNED TO THE GATE AND LET THE PAX OFF THERE. FIRST THE GEAR WOULDN'T GO UP AND THEN THE FIRE ALARM -- ONE RIGHT AFTER THE OTHER. WE WERE BUSY UNDER THE MASKS AND GOGGLES THAT'S FOR SURE. THIS TIME AN EMER WAS DECLARED LIKE THE OPS MANUAL SAID TO DO; AND THIS TIME IT SEEMED LIKE THE RIGHT THING TO DO. I HAD SHARED MY FIRST STORY WITH A COUPLE OTHER CHK AIRMEN AND THEY THOUGHT I'D MADE A CLEAN DECISION DURING THE FIRST FLT. I THINK I MAY TELL THEM THAT PERHAPS IT WASN'T IF I'D TAKEN THE OPS MANUAL LITERALLY. EVEN IF I HAD DECLARED AN EMER ON THE FIRST FLT; SHOULD I HAVE CANCELED IT 20 SECONDS LATER WHEN THE ALARM CEASED? I RECOMMEND TRAINING TO NEW HIRES REGARDING THESE EICAS MESSAGES THAT COME ON AND THEN GO AWAY IMMEDIATELY. IT TENDS TO LEAVE AN IMPRESSION THAT IT'S A FALSE INDICATION OR THAT THE PROB HAS GONE AWAY.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of January 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.