37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 777545 |
Time | |
Date | 200803 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : dca.airport |
State Reference | DC |
Altitude | msl single value : 15000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zdc.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B717 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Navigation In Use | other |
Flight Phase | descent : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | arrival star : eldee |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 777545 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met altitude deviation : overshoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued advisory controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
Normal flight to the point of druzz intersection at 15000 ft. We were given a clearance to cross druzz at 15000 ft. Which we were complying with. The controller asked us in the descent if we were aware of the changes in altitude on the eldee 3 RNAV arrival. We told the controller; we will comply with the eldee 3 RNAV arrival dated feb/xa/08. The controller then indicated that there were new altitudes on the arrival and proceeded to tell us and have us copy the new altitudes. The new altitudes were to change the altitudes over the following fixes: pugee; +12000 (at or above 12000 ft); capss delete the altitude; wzrrd; +10000 ft (at or above 10000 ft). There were no NOTAMS on our release indicating anything different than normal for the arrival. So maybe there were NOTAMS that somehow we did not receive prior to departure. The distance to start the approach descent once cleared and when we received the controller query was all of 7.1 mi; so the controller asked us about the chart; told us the new altitudes; and I selected them into the FMS; and then the controller switched us over to another frequency after he cleared us to descend via the eldee 3 arrival. At that point on the descent and with the new controller; I wanted to verify the new altitudes given by the previous controller. The new controller stated that he knew of no altitude changes on the arrival; and was surprised that we were given something else. At this point we were at about 14300 ft on the arrival between revue and pugee; trying to descend to cross pugee at 12000 ft. The controller told us to level at 12000 ft; and we complied. At that point we were given dscnts to finish the arrival and landed without incident.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CONFUSION REIGNS IN COCKPIT OF B717 WHEN APCH CTLR PROVIDES 'NEW' CROSSING ALTITUDES ON THE ELDEE STAR TO DCA AND SUBSEQUENT CTLR IS UNAWARE OF ANY ALT CHANGES.
Narrative: NORMAL FLT TO THE POINT OF DRUZZ INTXN AT 15000 FT. WE WERE GIVEN A CLRNC TO CROSS DRUZZ AT 15000 FT. WHICH WE WERE COMPLYING WITH. THE CTLR ASKED US IN THE DSCNT IF WE WERE AWARE OF THE CHANGES IN ALT ON THE ELDEE 3 RNAV ARR. WE TOLD THE CTLR; WE WILL COMPLY WITH THE ELDEE 3 RNAV ARR DATED FEB/XA/08. THE CTLR THEN INDICATED THAT THERE WERE NEW ALTS ON THE ARR AND PROCEEDED TO TELL US AND HAVE US COPY THE NEW ALTS. THE NEW ALTS WERE TO CHANGE THE ALTS OVER THE FOLLOWING FIXES: PUGEE; +12000 (AT OR ABOVE 12000 FT); CAPSS DELETE THE ALT; WZRRD; +10000 FT (AT OR ABOVE 10000 FT). THERE WERE NO NOTAMS ON OUR RELEASE INDICATING ANYTHING DIFFERENT THAN NORMAL FOR THE ARR. SO MAYBE THERE WERE NOTAMS THAT SOMEHOW WE DID NOT RECEIVE PRIOR TO DEP. THE DISTANCE TO START THE APCH DSCNT ONCE CLRED AND WHEN WE RECEIVED THE CTLR QUERY WAS ALL OF 7.1 MI; SO THE CTLR ASKED US ABOUT THE CHART; TOLD US THE NEW ALTS; AND I SELECTED THEM INTO THE FMS; AND THEN THE CTLR SWITCHED US OVER TO ANOTHER FREQ AFTER HE CLRED US TO DSND VIA THE ELDEE 3 ARR. AT THAT POINT ON THE DSCNT AND WITH THE NEW CTLR; I WANTED TO VERIFY THE NEW ALTS GIVEN BY THE PREVIOUS CTLR. THE NEW CTLR STATED THAT HE KNEW OF NO ALT CHANGES ON THE ARR; AND WAS SURPRISED THAT WE WERE GIVEN SOMETHING ELSE. AT THIS POINT WE WERE AT ABOUT 14300 FT ON THE ARR BTWN REVUE AND PUGEE; TRYING TO DSND TO CROSS PUGEE AT 12000 FT. THE CTLR TOLD US TO LEVEL AT 12000 FT; AND WE COMPLIED. AT THAT POINT WE WERE GIVEN DSCNTS TO FINISH THE ARR AND LANDED WITHOUT INCIDENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.