37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 780241 |
Time | |
Date | 200803 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : cle.airport |
State Reference | OH |
Altitude | msl single value : 2600 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : cle.tracon tower : zzz.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : takeoff |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 216 flight time type : 216 |
ASRS Report | 780241 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | government : faa |
Function | controller : departure |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : undershoot non adherence : clearance non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication Flight Crew Human Performance |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Pre departure clearance clearance was to 'maintain 5000 ft or req altitude if lower.' the AMRST1 SID says to maintain 2600 ft until djb then climb to 5000 ft on assigned heading. During departure tower said to turn to heading 360 degrees and contact departure (no altitude). We did that and climbed to 2600 ft. Departure was indignant and asked if we were on the SID. We said we were on the heading level at 2600 ft and what altitude would they like? He said to climb to 12000 ft. During the climb he said they had been having problems with that SID and had submitted a NOTAM. I checked and there was no local NOTAM for this. There was a D NOTAM in our WX packet. This NOTAM was vague and; in my view; irrelevant. Once vectored off the SID you are off the SID and on a new clearance; they should have given us an altitude. The rest of the flight was uneventful. Make the required changes to the SID. If you want to have a radar vector SID; then do that. Don't mix apples and oranges. Also; on the pre departure clearance clearance they should say 'maintain 5000 ft' (don't bait the hook). Also; when tower gives a heading; they also need to give you an altitude because you have a new clearance and are no longer on the SID. Lastly; I need to read the NOTAMS more carefully so that I can deal with those situations that require you to have perfect NOTAM situational awareness (like in cleveland).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B737 FLT CREW DEPARTING CLE LEVELED OFF AT A LOWER ALT THAN CLRED TO BY ATC.
Narrative: PDC CLRNC WAS TO 'MAINTAIN 5000 FT OR REQ ALT IF LOWER.' THE AMRST1 SID SAYS TO MAINTAIN 2600 FT UNTIL DJB THEN CLB TO 5000 FT ON ASSIGNED HDG. DURING DEP TOWER SAID TO TURN TO HDG 360 DEGS AND CONTACT DEP (NO ALTITUDE). WE DID THAT AND CLBED TO 2600 FT. DEP WAS INDIGNANT AND ASKED IF WE WERE ON THE SID. WE SAID WE WERE ON THE HDG LEVEL AT 2600 FT AND WHAT ALTITUDE WOULD THEY LIKE? HE SAID TO CLIMB TO 12000 FT. DURING THE CLB HE SAID THEY HAD BEEN HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THAT SID AND HAD SUBMITTED A NOTAM. I CHKED AND THERE WAS NO LCL NOTAM FOR THIS. THERE WAS A D NOTAM IN OUR WX PACKET. THIS NOTAM WAS VAGUE AND; IN MY VIEW; IRRELEVANT. ONCE VECTORED OFF THE SID YOU ARE OFF THE SID AND ON A NEW CLRNC; THEY SHOULD HAVE GIVEN US AN ALT. THE REST OF THE FLT WAS UNEVENTFUL. MAKE THE REQUIRED CHANGES TO THE SID. IF YOU WANT TO HAVE A RADAR VECTOR SID; THEN DO THAT. DON'T MIX APPLES AND ORANGES. ALSO; ON THE PDC CLRNC THEY SHOULD SAY 'MAINTAIN 5000 FT' (DON'T BAIT THE HOOK). ALSO; WHEN TOWER GIVES A HDG; THEY ALSO NEED TO GIVE YOU AN ALT BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NEW CLRNC AND ARE NO LONGER ON THE SID. LASTLY; I NEED TO READ THE NOTAMS MORE CAREFULLY SO THAT I CAN DEAL WITH THOSE SITUATIONS THAT REQUIRE YOU TO HAVE PERFECT NOTAM SITUATIONAL AWARENESS (LIKE IN CLEVELAND).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.