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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 800607 |
Time | |
Date | 200808 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
State Reference | US |
Altitude | msl single value : 33000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zzz.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B757-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | cruise : holding descent : approach descent : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 230 flight time total : 15500 flight time type : 6500 |
ASRS Report | 800607 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Events | |
Anomaly | other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Narrative:
While holding at ABC1 for 55 mins; our flight was released inbound to ZZZ1. Another flight reported that it needed to be released from holding immediately or divert. We had ample fuel on board; so we told center that we would let the overflt take our place and returned to holding. After an additional turn; we were again released inbound to ZZZ1. With VMC WX and the entire metropolitan area in clear WX; we were put into holding again at ABC2 intersection. The controller gave efc's 5 mins apart; with ours resulting in 45 mins of hold time. I transmitted that 'for reference' we would not be able to hold to the efc. The controller asked if we were declaring a fuel emergency to which I said 'negative.' we had plenty of fuel for a divert; just not after another 45 mins of holding. We were taken out of the stack after a short delay; switched frequencys and were asked for 'souls and fuel on board.' I again stated that we had not declared an emergency; did not need special handling; and had 1 hour 15 mins of fuel remaining. We were advised that center had declared an emergency for us. There are a couple of systemic problems here. ATC does not know the fuel burn performance of our aircraft; our divert options; or fuel reserves. This makes the idea of an ATC staffer declaring an emergency for a PIC counterproductive putting all flts at risk. Secondly; ATC staffers do not communicate realistic information on actual hold times predicted; generally issuing efc's based on NORDO constraints; 5 mins apart. The latter lack of information forces pilots in complex situations to guess on options. In this case we continued inbound for an uneventful landing with well over 1 hour's fuel remaining; encountering no inbound traffic visually or electronically. It was obvious during our descent and arrival during which we had the entire area in clear sight; that ZZZ1 was holding airborne traffic in order to facilitate launching outbound aircraft without using intersecting runways. ZZZ1 is currently a mess; and the lack of information and ATC policies are putting pilots into a situation of guessing on critical matters.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ATC DECLARED EMER FOR B757 ARR AFTER FLT CREW NOTED INABILITY TO HOLD UNTIL ISSUED EFC; FLT CREW VOICED CONCERN REGARDING ATC ACTION.
Narrative: WHILE HOLDING AT ABC1 FOR 55 MINS; OUR FLT WAS RELEASED INBOUND TO ZZZ1. ANOTHER FLT RPTED THAT IT NEEDED TO BE RELEASED FROM HOLDING IMMEDIATELY OR DIVERT. WE HAD AMPLE FUEL ON BOARD; SO WE TOLD CTR THAT WE WOULD LET THE OVERFLT TAKE OUR PLACE AND RETURNED TO HOLDING. AFTER AN ADDITIONAL TURN; WE WERE AGAIN RELEASED INBOUND TO ZZZ1. WITH VMC WX AND THE ENTIRE METROPOLITAN AREA IN CLR WX; WE WERE PUT INTO HOLDING AGAIN AT ABC2 INTXN. THE CTLR GAVE EFC'S 5 MINS APART; WITH OURS RESULTING IN 45 MINS OF HOLD TIME. I XMITTED THAT 'FOR REF' WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO HOLD TO THE EFC. THE CTLR ASKED IF WE WERE DECLARING A FUEL EMER TO WHICH I SAID 'NEGATIVE.' WE HAD PLENTY OF FUEL FOR A DIVERT; JUST NOT AFTER ANOTHER 45 MINS OF HOLDING. WE WERE TAKEN OUT OF THE STACK AFTER A SHORT DELAY; SWITCHED FREQS AND WERE ASKED FOR 'SOULS AND FUEL ON BOARD.' I AGAIN STATED THAT WE HAD NOT DECLARED AN EMER; DID NOT NEED SPECIAL HANDLING; AND HAD 1 HR 15 MINS OF FUEL REMAINING. WE WERE ADVISED THAT CTR HAD DECLARED AN EMER FOR US. THERE ARE A COUPLE OF SYSTEMIC PROBS HERE. ATC DOES NOT KNOW THE FUEL BURN PERFORMANCE OF OUR ACFT; OUR DIVERT OPTIONS; OR FUEL RESERVES. THIS MAKES THE IDEA OF AN ATC STAFFER DECLARING AN EMER FOR A PIC COUNTERPRODUCTIVE PUTTING ALL FLTS AT RISK. SECONDLY; ATC STAFFERS DO NOT COMMUNICATE REALISTIC INFO ON ACTUAL HOLD TIMES PREDICTED; GENERALLY ISSUING EFC'S BASED ON NORDO CONSTRAINTS; 5 MINS APART. THE LATTER LACK OF INFO FORCES PLTS IN COMPLEX SITUATIONS TO GUESS ON OPTIONS. IN THIS CASE WE CONTINUED INBOUND FOR AN UNEVENTFUL LNDG WITH WELL OVER 1 HR'S FUEL REMAINING; ENCOUNTERING NO INBOUND TFC VISUALLY OR ELECTRONICALLY. IT WAS OBVIOUS DURING OUR DSCNT AND ARR DURING WHICH WE HAD THE ENTIRE AREA IN CLR SIGHT; THAT ZZZ1 WAS HOLDING AIRBORNE TFC IN ORDER TO FACILITATE LAUNCHING OUTBOUND ACFT WITHOUT USING INTERSECTING RWYS. ZZZ1 IS CURRENTLY A MESS; AND THE LACK OF INFO AND ATC POLICIES ARE PUTTING PLTS INTO A SITUATION OF GUESSING ON CRITICAL MATTERS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.