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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 801493 |
Time | |
Date | 200808 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : zzz.airport |
State Reference | US |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : lex.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | A320 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : preflight ground : parked |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 801493 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
ASRS Report | 801616 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : far non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa other flight crewb |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Company Weather |
Primary Problem | Company |
Narrative:
The flight schedule on day 1 consisted of flight that was intended to start in ZZZ; go to ZZZ1; and then continue on to ZZZ4. Block time was originally scheduled for 6 hours and 28 mins. I served as the first officer and upon reaching the ZZZ1 terminal area; ZZZ1 was experiencing severe thunderstorm activity in the area. Gusty winds were reported on the surface; go around's by preceding aircraft; and then even microburst alerts were reported. We got vectored around for a period of time; although not ever given official holding; as we waited for conditions to improve. Eventually we burned our fuel down to a level that necessitated that we then divert. We were informed by dispatch to divert to ZZZ2 as ZZZ3 was already over their capacity; which we did. On our way to ZZZ2 we discussed that with our block time to ZZZ2 and then back to ZZZ1 and then projected to ZZZ4 we would not be legal to continue onto ZZZ4 once getting to ZZZ1; as we would then intentionally exceed 8 hours of block between our rest periods; which is prohibited per far 121.470(a). The captain promptly sent an ACARS message to dispatch to notify them as well as scheduling. We later received a response back indicating that we were going to be legal to continue onto ZZZ4 once arriving back in ZZZ1. We then decided to wait until we got back to ZZZ1 to re-compute our times. Once arriving in ZZZ1 we had logged 3 hours and 35 mins combined flight time. ZZZ1 to ZZZ4 was blocked at 5 hours and 20 mins on our schedule; for a combined total 8 hours and 55 mins. We exited the aircraft and decided to call scheduling back to let them know we were not legal to fly to ZZZ4. They insisted that we were legal to complete the duty period; intentionally exceeding the 8 hours because 'legal to start legal to finish.' we once again told them that we would not be able to accept the assignment because it was in violation of federal law. They insisted that we then talk to the chief pilot. He wasn't real sure; but thought it was legal as long as the flight number didn't change (like on a fuel stop). I respectfully reminded him that the regulations do not indicate anything in reference to flight numbers and being allowed to exceed time limits if the flight number doesn't change. Both the captain and myself indicated to the chief pilot that we would not be willing to operate in violation of the far's. He said he would call us back. He called us back a short time later and advised us that he called a few others including vp of flight operations; and everyone agreed that we were indeed legal to accept the assignment. This just wasn't true; in our opinion; and we still were not convinced that this operation would be legal. We therefore informed chief pilot that we would not be able to cover this flight but would be happy to accept another assignment; as long as it was less than 4 hours and 25 mins (the time we had remaining out of our original 8 hours). He instructed us that scheduling would be calling us back. I then received a call from pilot scheduling. They were very condescending in tone of voice and told us that they were putting us down as 'refusing assignment;' and that we 'would not be pay protected for refusing assignment;' and that they were going to deadhead us home. I thought to myself; what kind of treatment is this? You follow the rules; keep the operation safe and legal; and this is the kind of thanks you get. What they were actually trying to do in my opinion; was trying to bully us into going anyhow; in fear of disciplinary action or losing pay. I will officially say this; for the record; there is no amount of money on this earth or disciplinary action that will entice me to do something that is intentionally wrong; unsafe; or not legal! Under any circumstances! Period! End of story! Just to make sure we were correct on our interpretation of the regulations; a friend of mine; not associated with this case; called the assistant principal operations inspector for another company; and he confirmed our interpretation; that every time the wheels touch the ground; projected block time must be recomputed. At no time is it permissible to accept assignment if you are projected to exceed the 8 hour time limit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN ACR CREW REFUSES TO FLY A LEG THAT WOULD CAUSE THEM TO EXCEED EIGHT FLT HOURS AFTER A WX DIVERSION ADDED TWO HOURS OF BLOCK TIME.
Narrative: THE FLT SCHEDULE ON DAY 1 CONSISTED OF FLT THAT WAS INTENDED TO START IN ZZZ; GO TO ZZZ1; AND THEN CONTINUE ON TO ZZZ4. BLOCK TIME WAS ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED FOR 6 HRS AND 28 MINS. I SERVED AS THE FO AND UPON REACHING THE ZZZ1 TERMINAL AREA; ZZZ1 WAS EXPERIENCING SEVERE TSTM ACTIVITY IN THE AREA. GUSTY WINDS WERE RPTED ON THE SURFACE; GAR'S BY PRECEDING ACFT; AND THEN EVEN MICROBURST ALERTS WERE RPTED. WE GOT VECTORED AROUND FOR A PERIOD OF TIME; ALTHOUGH NOT EVER GIVEN OFFICIAL HOLDING; AS WE WAITED FOR CONDITIONS TO IMPROVE. EVENTUALLY WE BURNED OUR FUEL DOWN TO A LEVEL THAT NECESSITATED THAT WE THEN DIVERT. WE WERE INFORMED BY DISPATCH TO DIVERT TO ZZZ2 AS ZZZ3 WAS ALREADY OVER THEIR CAPACITY; WHICH WE DID. ON OUR WAY TO ZZZ2 WE DISCUSSED THAT WITH OUR BLOCK TIME TO ZZZ2 AND THEN BACK TO ZZZ1 AND THEN PROJECTED TO ZZZ4 WE WOULD NOT BE LEGAL TO CONTINUE ONTO ZZZ4 ONCE GETTING TO ZZZ1; AS WE WOULD THEN INTENTIONALLY EXCEED 8 HRS OF BLOCK BTWN OUR REST PERIODS; WHICH IS PROHIBITED PER FAR 121.470(A). THE CAPT PROMPTLY SENT AN ACARS MESSAGE TO DISPATCH TO NOTIFY THEM AS WELL AS SCHEDULING. WE LATER RECEIVED A RESPONSE BACK INDICATING THAT WE WERE GOING TO BE LEGAL TO CONTINUE ONTO ZZZ4 ONCE ARRIVING BACK IN ZZZ1. WE THEN DECIDED TO WAIT UNTIL WE GOT BACK TO ZZZ1 TO RE-COMPUTE OUR TIMES. ONCE ARRIVING IN ZZZ1 WE HAD LOGGED 3 HRS AND 35 MINS COMBINED FLT TIME. ZZZ1 TO ZZZ4 WAS BLOCKED AT 5 HRS AND 20 MINS ON OUR SCHEDULE; FOR A COMBINED TOTAL 8 HRS AND 55 MINS. WE EXITED THE ACFT AND DECIDED TO CALL SCHEDULING BACK TO LET THEM KNOW WE WERE NOT LEGAL TO FLY TO ZZZ4. THEY INSISTED THAT WE WERE LEGAL TO COMPLETE THE DUTY PERIOD; INTENTIONALLY EXCEEDING THE 8 HRS BECAUSE 'LEGAL TO START LEGAL TO FINISH.' WE ONCE AGAIN TOLD THEM THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ACCEPT THE ASSIGNMENT BECAUSE IT WAS IN VIOLATION OF FEDERAL LAW. THEY INSISTED THAT WE THEN TALK TO THE CHIEF PLT. HE WASN'T REAL SURE; BUT THOUGHT IT WAS LEGAL AS LONG AS THE FLT NUMBER DIDN'T CHANGE (LIKE ON A FUEL STOP). I RESPECTFULLY REMINDED HIM THAT THE REGS DO NOT INDICATE ANYTHING IN REF TO FLT NUMBERS AND BEING ALLOWED TO EXCEED TIME LIMITS IF THE FLT NUMBER DOESN'T CHANGE. BOTH THE CAPT AND MYSELF INDICATED TO THE CHIEF PLT THAT WE WOULD NOT BE WILLING TO OPERATE IN VIOLATION OF THE FAR'S. HE SAID HE WOULD CALL US BACK. HE CALLED US BACK A SHORT TIME LATER AND ADVISED US THAT HE CALLED A FEW OTHERS INCLUDING VP OF FLT OPS; AND EVERYONE AGREED THAT WE WERE INDEED LEGAL TO ACCEPT THE ASSIGNMENT. THIS JUST WASN'T TRUE; IN OUR OPINION; AND WE STILL WERE NOT CONVINCED THAT THIS OP WOULD BE LEGAL. WE THEREFORE INFORMED CHIEF PLT THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO COVER THIS FLT BUT WOULD BE HAPPY TO ACCEPT ANOTHER ASSIGNMENT; AS LONG AS IT WAS LESS THAN 4 HRS AND 25 MINS (THE TIME WE HAD REMAINING OUT OF OUR ORIGINAL 8 HRS). HE INSTRUCTED US THAT SCHEDULING WOULD BE CALLING US BACK. I THEN RECEIVED A CALL FROM PLT SCHEDULING. THEY WERE VERY CONDESCENDING IN TONE OF VOICE AND TOLD US THAT THEY WERE PUTTING US DOWN AS 'REFUSING ASSIGNMENT;' AND THAT WE 'WOULD NOT BE PAY PROTECTED FOR REFUSING ASSIGNMENT;' AND THAT THEY WERE GOING TO DEADHEAD US HOME. I THOUGHT TO MYSELF; WHAT KIND OF TREATMENT IS THIS? YOU FOLLOW THE RULES; KEEP THE OP SAFE AND LEGAL; AND THIS IS THE KIND OF THANKS YOU GET. WHAT THEY WERE ACTUALLY TRYING TO DO IN MY OPINION; WAS TRYING TO BULLY US INTO GOING ANYHOW; IN FEAR OF DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR LOSING PAY. I WILL OFFICIALLY SAY THIS; FOR THE RECORD; THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF MONEY ON THIS EARTH OR DISCIPLINARY ACTION THAT WILL ENTICE ME TO DO SOMETHING THAT IS INTENTIONALLY WRONG; UNSAFE; OR NOT LEGAL! UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES! PERIOD! END OF STORY! JUST TO MAKE SURE WE WERE CORRECT ON OUR INTERP OF THE REGS; A FRIEND OF MINE; NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THIS CASE; CALLED THE ASSISTANT PRINCIPAL OPS INSPECTOR FOR ANOTHER COMPANY; AND HE CONFIRMED OUR INTERP; THAT EVERY TIME THE WHEELS TOUCH THE GND; PROJECTED BLOCK TIME MUST BE RECOMPUTED. AT NO TIME IS IT PERMISSIBLE TO ACCEPT ASSIGNMENT IF YOU ARE PROJECTED TO EXCEED THE 8 HR TIME LIMIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.