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Attributes | |
ACN | 805781 |
Time | |
Date | 200809 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl single value : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B777-200 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | ground : holding |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 500 |
ASRS Report | 805781 |
Events | |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft Airport |
Primary Problem | Ambiguous |
Situations | |
Airport | lighting : lax.airport markings : lax.airport |
Narrative:
After landing on a recent flight to lax I noticed an area of concern while taxiing. After clearing runway 25L on high speed ap and proceeding on taxiway AC via the taxiway centerline green lights we held short of the runway 25R hold line at taxiway P by approximately 50-75 ft. It is my belief that had we proceeded any further and brought the B777 to a stop with the nose just short of the hold line the right wingtip would be in a position to penetrate the extended hold short line; impinging upon the runway 25R protected area. The angle the AC taxi line approachs the hold line on taxiway P is very shallow and unsafe in my opinion. Not only do I believe the wingtip extends into the protected area of the runway but from that position the pilots have no view of the approach end of runway 25R when they do get clearance to cross the runway due to the necessity to taxi straight forward prior to making any turn in order to assure right main wheel clearance from the taxiway edge lights. It's not until they crossed the hold line a good amount and are basically on the runway that they finally get a safe view. The taxi line/green lights for the turn from taxiway AC to the taxiway P hold short line needs to be an arc with a much rounder radius allowing the aircraft to be in a near perpendicular position to runway 25L; never giving a wingtip a chance to protrude beyond the hold short line as well as having the tail remain clear of the runway 25L protected area. By observing the rubber scuff marks on the taxiway far removed from the painted centerline/green lights it's obvious many pilots are ignoring the taxiway centerline and establishing their own turn radius to put themselves in a safe position at the hold short point. This shouldn't have to be the case; it's a brand new taxiway and should be properly striped and lit.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: A B777 PILOT BELIEVES THE ACFT'S RIGHT WING EXTENDS ONTO LAX RWY 25R WHILE HOLDING SHORT ON TXWY P BECAUSE THE TXWY CENTERLINE ARCS TOWARD THE RWY.
Narrative: AFTER LNDG ON A RECENT FLT TO LAX I NOTICED AN AREA OF CONCERN WHILE TAXIING. AFTER CLRING RWY 25L ON HIGH SPD AP AND PROCEEDING ON TXWY AC VIA THE TXWY CTRLINE GREEN LIGHTS WE HELD SHORT OF THE RWY 25R HOLD LINE AT TXWY P BY APPROX 50-75 FT. IT IS MY BELIEF THAT HAD WE PROCEEDED ANY FURTHER AND BROUGHT THE B777 TO A STOP WITH THE NOSE JUST SHORT OF THE HOLD LINE THE R WINGTIP WOULD BE IN A POS TO PENETRATE THE EXTENDED HOLD SHORT LINE; IMPINGING UPON THE RWY 25R PROTECTED AREA. THE ANGLE THE AC TAXI LINE APCHS THE HOLD LINE ON TXWY P IS VERY SHALLOW AND UNSAFE IN MY OPINION. NOT ONLY DO I BELIEVE THE WINGTIP EXTENDS INTO THE PROTECTED AREA OF THE RWY BUT FROM THAT POS THE PLTS HAVE NO VIEW OF THE APCH END OF RWY 25R WHEN THEY DO GET CLRNC TO CROSS THE RWY DUE TO THE NECESSITY TO TAXI STRAIGHT FORWARD PRIOR TO MAKING ANY TURN IN ORDER TO ASSURE R MAIN WHEEL CLRNC FROM THE TXWY EDGE LIGHTS. IT'S NOT UNTIL THEY CROSSED THE HOLD LINE A GOOD AMOUNT AND ARE BASICALLY ON THE RWY THAT THEY FINALLY GET A SAFE VIEW. THE TAXI LINE/GREEN LIGHTS FOR THE TURN FROM TXWY AC TO THE TXWY P HOLD SHORT LINE NEEDS TO BE AN ARC WITH A MUCH ROUNDER RADIUS ALLOWING THE ACFT TO BE IN A NEAR PERPENDICULAR POS TO RWY 25L; NEVER GIVING A WINGTIP A CHANCE TO PROTRUDE BEYOND THE HOLD SHORT LINE AS WELL AS HAVING THE TAIL REMAIN CLR OF THE RWY 25L PROTECTED AREA. BY OBSERVING THE RUBBER SCUFF MARKS ON THE TXWY FAR REMOVED FROM THE PAINTED CTRLINE/GREEN LIGHTS IT'S OBVIOUS MANY PLTS ARE IGNORING THE TXWY CTRLINE AND ESTABLISHING THEIR OWN TURN RADIUS TO PUT THEMSELVES IN A SAFE POS AT THE HOLD SHORT POINT. THIS SHOULDN'T HAVE TO BE THE CASE; IT'S A BRAND NEW TXWY AND SHOULD BE PROPERLY STRIPED AND LIT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.