37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 808423 |
Time | |
Date | 200810 |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ahn.airport |
State Reference | GA |
Altitude | msl single value : 10000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Weather Elements | Thunderstorm Turbulence |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : ztl.artcc |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Light Transport Low Wing 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | departure : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : multi engine pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 15500 flight time type : 3000 |
ASRS Report | 808423 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time total : 3400 flight time type : 106 |
ASRS Report | 808642 |
Events | |
Anomaly | inflight encounter : turbulence inflight encounter : weather non adherence : clearance non adherence : required legal separation other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | flight crew : returned to intended or assigned course |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | ATC Human Performance Flight Crew Human Performance Weather |
Primary Problem | Weather |
Narrative:
After contacting ZTL we were told to climb on a westerly heading to 10000 ft. There were 3 thunderstorms building up in front of us but the heading the controller gave us initially looked as though we would remain clear. Then the controller told us to turn more south as I remember; to a heading of 190 degrees. This new heading was sending us directly into the path of the largest thunderstorm. My copilot who was flying that leg asked me to request a turn to avoid the storm. I said ok and at the same time the controller gave us a frequency change. I switched frequencys but got no answer. I was trying to get a new frequency from the previous controller but was having a hard time as he was tying up the frequency making it impossible to get through to him. At this point we had to do something or possibly endanger the flight. I told my copilot to turn southeast to 150 degrees to avoid the WX and that I would notify the controller as soon as I could get through to him. As we were turning I got the controller finally and told him we turned to 150 degrees to avoid WX. The controller came back sounding very insistent and agitated telling us to turn back to the original heading of 190 degrees. It was at this point that communications broke down. I was trying to let the controller know he had vectored us directly toward a thunderstorm but apparently he was transmitting on top of my xmissions and wasn't hearing me. This happened several times as this controller became very agitated that we weren't turning. He would transmit but wouldn't give me time to answer before transmitting again therefore blocking my reply. We finally heard him clear us to 11000 ft which I acknowledged. The controller was so insistent and agitated I told my copilot to turn back to 190 degrees and climb to 11000 ft and we would take our chances on the storm. I was going completely against my better judgment and right as per the far's as PIC; just to try and de-escalate a volatile situation with this controller. Next I told him we were heading 190 degrees climbing to 11000 ft. The controller started yelling that he told us to level at 10000 ft. I came back and said you cleared us to 11000 ft. He said that he came back to stop the climb at 10000 ft. We didn't receive that clearance as we were both blocking each other. I finally got through and told him we were back to 10000 ft. At that point and after considerable turbulence we broke out of the WX. This situation was very unnerving to me and my copilot. The controller gave me a number to call and handed us off to a new controller; who I might add was much more composed. When we got to home base I called the number and talked to an operations manager. He started off saying that we should have told the controller he was vectoring us into a storm as they don't want to do that. I told him that I tried several times but the radio aggressive controller wouldn't stop transmitting long enough to hear me tell him anything. The operations manager asked if I wanted to listen to the tape and I did. When played it was obvious that the controller didn't hear anything from me because he blocked all my xmissions. I am making an effort to retrieve the aircraft recorder tape to prove my xmissions. In my opinion this whole incident could have been avoided had this controller calmed down a little and let me respond to his xmissions. I turned the aircraft to avoid a real danger and in hindsight am sorry I let this controller intimidate me into turning back into the storm. Supplemental information from acn 808642: shortly after we departed; we were coming up on a good thunderstorm cell at our 12 O'clock position. I then told mr X to get us a turn from ATC which he tried to do. It seemed to me like all of our xmissions kept getting stepped on; but the captain did try on several attempts to tell ATC that they were running us right into a thunderstorm. We were issued a frequency change but got no reply; the captain then gave me a new heading as he continued to advise ATC of the WX issue.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: AN LIGHT TWIN FLT CREW DEVIATES FOR WEATHER WITHOUT CLEARANCE WHEN COMMUNICATION CANNOT BE ESTABLISHED WITH ZTL. FLT CREW IS ADMONISHED BY IRATE CONTROLLER WHEN COMM IS ESTABLISHED.
Narrative: AFTER CONTACTING ZTL WE WERE TOLD TO CLB ON A WESTERLY HDG TO 10000 FT. THERE WERE 3 TSTMS BUILDING UP IN FRONT OF US BUT THE HDG THE CTLR GAVE US INITIALLY LOOKED AS THOUGH WE WOULD REMAIN CLR. THEN THE CTLR TOLD US TO TURN MORE S AS I REMEMBER; TO A HDG OF 190 DEGS. THIS NEW HDG WAS SENDING US DIRECTLY INTO THE PATH OF THE LARGEST TSTM. MY COPLT WHO WAS FLYING THAT LEG ASKED ME TO REQUEST A TURN TO AVOID THE STORM. I SAID OK AND AT THE SAME TIME THE CTLR GAVE US A FREQ CHANGE. I SWITCHED FREQS BUT GOT NO ANSWER. I WAS TRYING TO GET A NEW FREQ FROM THE PREVIOUS CTLR BUT WAS HAVING A HARD TIME AS HE WAS TYING UP THE FREQ MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO GET THROUGH TO HIM. AT THIS POINT WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING OR POSSIBLY ENDANGER THE FLT. I TOLD MY COPLT TO TURN SE TO 150 DEGS TO AVOID THE WX AND THAT I WOULD NOTIFY THE CTLR AS SOON AS I COULD GET THROUGH TO HIM. AS WE WERE TURNING I GOT THE CTLR FINALLY AND TOLD HIM WE TURNED TO 150 DEGS TO AVOID WX. THE CTLR CAME BACK SOUNDING VERY INSISTENT AND AGITATED TELLING US TO TURN BACK TO THE ORIGINAL HDG OF 190 DEGS. IT WAS AT THIS POINT THAT COMS BROKE DOWN. I WAS TRYING TO LET THE CTLR KNOW HE HAD VECTORED US DIRECTLY TOWARD A TSTM BUT APPARENTLY HE WAS XMITTING ON TOP OF MY XMISSIONS AND WASN'T HEARING ME. THIS HAPPENED SEVERAL TIMES AS THIS CTLR BECAME VERY AGITATED THAT WE WEREN'T TURNING. HE WOULD XMIT BUT WOULDN'T GIVE ME TIME TO ANSWER BEFORE XMITTING AGAIN THEREFORE BLOCKING MY REPLY. WE FINALLY HEARD HIM CLR US TO 11000 FT WHICH I ACKNOWLEDGED. THE CTLR WAS SO INSISTENT AND AGITATED I TOLD MY COPLT TO TURN BACK TO 190 DEGS AND CLB TO 11000 FT AND WE WOULD TAKE OUR CHANCES ON THE STORM. I WAS GOING COMPLETELY AGAINST MY BETTER JUDGMENT AND RIGHT AS PER THE FAR'S AS PIC; JUST TO TRY AND DE-ESCALATE A VOLATILE SITUATION WITH THIS CTLR. NEXT I TOLD HIM WE WERE HDG 190 DEGS CLBING TO 11000 FT. THE CTLR STARTED YELLING THAT HE TOLD US TO LEVEL AT 10000 FT. I CAME BACK AND SAID YOU CLRED US TO 11000 FT. HE SAID THAT HE CAME BACK TO STOP THE CLB AT 10000 FT. WE DIDN'T RECEIVE THAT CLRNC AS WE WERE BOTH BLOCKING EACH OTHER. I FINALLY GOT THROUGH AND TOLD HIM WE WERE BACK TO 10000 FT. AT THAT POINT AND AFTER CONSIDERABLE TURB WE BROKE OUT OF THE WX. THIS SITUATION WAS VERY UNNERVING TO ME AND MY COPLT. THE CTLR GAVE ME A NUMBER TO CALL AND HANDED US OFF TO A NEW CTLR; WHO I MIGHT ADD WAS MUCH MORE COMPOSED. WHEN WE GOT TO HOME BASE I CALLED THE NUMBER AND TALKED TO AN OPS MGR. HE STARTED OFF SAYING THAT WE SHOULD HAVE TOLD THE CTLR HE WAS VECTORING US INTO A STORM AS THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. I TOLD HIM THAT I TRIED SEVERAL TIMES BUT THE RADIO AGGRESSIVE CTLR WOULDN'T STOP XMITTING LONG ENOUGH TO HEAR ME TELL HIM ANYTHING. THE OPS MGR ASKED IF I WANTED TO LISTEN TO THE TAPE AND I DID. WHEN PLAYED IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT THE CTLR DIDN'T HEAR ANYTHING FROM ME BECAUSE HE BLOCKED ALL MY XMISSIONS. I AM MAKING AN EFFORT TO RETRIEVE THE ACFT RECORDER TAPE TO PROVE MY XMISSIONS. IN MY OPINION THIS WHOLE INCIDENT COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED HAD THIS CTLR CALMED DOWN A LITTLE AND LET ME RESPOND TO HIS XMISSIONS. I TURNED THE ACFT TO AVOID A REAL DANGER AND IN HINDSIGHT AM SORRY I LET THIS CTLR INTIMIDATE ME INTO TURNING BACK INTO THE STORM. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 808642: SHORTLY AFTER WE DEPARTED; WE WERE COMING UP ON A GOOD TSTM CELL AT OUR 12 O'CLOCK POS. I THEN TOLD MR X TO GET US A TURN FROM ATC WHICH HE TRIED TO DO. IT SEEMED TO ME LIKE ALL OF OUR XMISSIONS KEPT GETTING STEPPED ON; BUT THE CAPT DID TRY ON SEVERAL ATTEMPTS TO TELL ATC THAT THEY WERE RUNNING US RIGHT INTO A TSTM. WE WERE ISSUED A FREQ CHANGE BUT GOT NO REPLY; THE CAPT THEN GAVE ME A NEW HDG AS HE CONTINUED TO ADVISE ATC OF THE WX ISSUE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.