37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 808663 |
Time | |
Date | 200810 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : slc.airport |
State Reference | UT |
Altitude | msl single value : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tower : slc.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | MD-90 Series (DC-9-90) Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude climbout : initial |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : multi engine pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 100 flight time total : 12000 flight time type : 8000 |
ASRS Report | 808663 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : unable |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Aircraft Chart Or Publication Environmental Factor |
Primary Problem | Chart Or Publication |
Situations | |
Airport | procedure or policy : slc.airport |
Chart | sid : + |
Narrative:
Slc airport has recently implemented many troublesome departure procedures (SID) that are more complex than necessary; contain speeds requiring unusual flap management and many chances to mess up. I personally think they should all be viewed and decertified for safety reasons. A classic example occurred on this flight. We were in a heavy MD90 cleared for takeoff on runway 16R on the twin falls 1 departure procedure (twf 1.twf). The procedure requires a large right turn at 500 ft AGL direct to ppigg intersection. At 400 ft AGL (the lowest our lateral navigation will engage at) we selected navigation; at 500 ft AGL I started the right turn; going to 15 degrees of bank; as we are limited by minimum maneuvering speed (minimum clean speed is really high 251K; so keeps the slats at even passing 1000 ft is required). As soon as we were at minimum maneuver speed for slats out; I went to 30 degrees of bank. This requires flying against the flight director! I am very experienced on type; but after a flaps 5 degree takeoff which results in a liftoff near the end of the runway; there is nothing else you can do. Despite being in the turn; tower asked us to verify that our first waypoint was ppigg. The first officer answered that it was and that we were in the turn. Obviously we were overshooting the ground track they desire (we did cross ppigg; though) but there is nothing else we can do about the situation. These SID's desire you to maintain both low speeds and unrealistic ground tracks (just look at the way the twf 1 is depicted on the kslc chart) although these are started at points where some aircraft will not be at a minimum maneuvering speed; necessitating only 15 degree angle of bank. These sids/departure procedures have been very troublesome for our operator; and I imagine others. They should be withdrawn and redesigned. They are unrealistic; high workload; and ultimately unsafe.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: MD90 CAPTAIN ASSERTS RNAV DEP FROM SLC FAILS TO TAKE ACFT PERFORMANCE LIMITATIONS INTO ACCOUNT.
Narrative: SLC ARPT HAS RECENTLY IMPLEMENTED MANY TROUBLESOME DEP PROCS (SID) THAT ARE MORE COMPLEX THAN NECESSARY; CONTAIN SPDS REQUIRING UNUSUAL FLAP MGMNT AND MANY CHANCES TO MESS UP. I PERSONALLY THINK THEY SHOULD ALL BE VIEWED AND DECERTIFIED FOR SAFETY REASONS. A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OCCURRED ON THIS FLT. WE WERE IN A HVY MD90 CLRED FOR TKOF ON RWY 16R ON THE TWIN FALLS 1 DEP PROC (TWF 1.TWF). THE PROC REQUIRES A LARGE R TURN AT 500 FT AGL DIRECT TO PPIGG INTXN. AT 400 FT AGL (THE LOWEST OUR LATERAL NAV WILL ENGAGE AT) WE SELECTED NAV; AT 500 FT AGL I STARTED THE R TURN; GOING TO 15 DEGS OF BANK; AS WE ARE LIMITED BY MINIMUM MANEUVERING SPD (MINIMUM CLEAN SPD IS REALLY HIGH 251K; SO KEEPS THE SLATS AT EVEN PASSING 1000 FT IS REQUIRED). AS SOON AS WE WERE AT MINIMUM MANEUVER SPD FOR SLATS OUT; I WENT TO 30 DEGS OF BANK. THIS REQUIRES FLYING AGAINST THE FLT DIRECTOR! I AM VERY EXPERIENCED ON TYPE; BUT AFTER A FLAPS 5 DEG TKOF WHICH RESULTS IN A LIFTOFF NEAR THE END OF THE RWY; THERE IS NOTHING ELSE YOU CAN DO. DESPITE BEING IN THE TURN; TWR ASKED US TO VERIFY THAT OUR FIRST WAYPOINT WAS PPIGG. THE FO ANSWERED THAT IT WAS AND THAT WE WERE IN THE TURN. OBVIOUSLY WE WERE OVERSHOOTING THE GND TRACK THEY DESIRE (WE DID CROSS PPIGG; THOUGH) BUT THERE IS NOTHING ELSE WE CAN DO ABOUT THE SIT. THESE SID'S DESIRE YOU TO MAINTAIN BOTH LOW SPDS AND UNREALISTIC GND TRACKS (JUST LOOK AT THE WAY THE TWF 1 IS DEPICTED ON THE KSLC CHART) ALTHOUGH THESE ARE STARTED AT POINTS WHERE SOME ACFT WILL NOT BE AT A MINIMUM MANEUVERING SPD; NECESSITATING ONLY 15 DEG ANGLE OF BANK. THESE SIDS/DEP PROCS HAVE BEEN VERY TROUBLESOME FOR OUR OPERATOR; AND I IMAGINE OTHERS. THEY SHOULD BE WITHDRAWN AND REDESIGNED. THEY ARE UNREALISTIC; HIGH WORKLOAD; AND ULTIMATELY UNSAFE.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.