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Attributes | |
ACN | 810206 |
Time | |
Date | 200810 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : sfo.airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | IMC |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zoa.artcc tracon : nct.tracon tower : bna.tower |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | B747-400 |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | arrival other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 240 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 810206 |
Events | |
Anomaly | non adherence : published procedure other spatial deviation |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Supplementary | |
Problem Areas | Flight Crew Human Performance ATC Human Performance Chart Or Publication Company |
Primary Problem | Company |
Narrative:
We were cleared for the pacific one TA. Switched over to norcal approach. Controller asked us if we were at 220 KTS. I said no. He acted like we should have been. I advised him it wasn't in our clearance but said we could slow if needed. He said ok. The tailored arrs cause me some concern. They are about the most complicated arrs we perform; yet we do not have access to a printed chart. There are numerous above and below crossing and speed restrs. It should not be done without a chart. Crews getting this arrival are tired; having flown all night. There is big probability of making an error without being able to see the chart. To me it is as complicated as the lax civet arrival. None of us would dream of performing that one without a chart. Why do we do the TA without one. I was on my break when the relief pilots accepted the TA. I would have declined it had I been on the flight deck. Also; we got a change of approach (runway 28R from runway 28L ILS) during the TA. There is no easy way to reinstall the approach without losing the entire TA routing. I think it's foolhardy to be reprogramming this complex arrival below FL180; especially without benefit of a chart or having it line-selectable in the FMC. This procedure is a pilot deviation; or worse; waiting to happen. I will not accept another TA until it is charted and/or loaded into the database. Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: reporter states the procedure is uncharted. The crews are supposed to request the arrival and once approved it is sent to them via datalink and they subsequently upload to the FMC. Vectors off the arrival and back on cause confusion as well as approach changes that cause the routing to drop from their FMC. Reporter is highly concerned with the issuance of this arrival to fatigued crews.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B747-400 CAPT DESCRIBES THE DIFFICULTIES IN EXECUTING THE 'PACIFIC ONE' A NON-CHARTED ARRIVAL WITH VARIOUS RESTRICTIONS.
Narrative: WE WERE CLRED FOR THE PACIFIC ONE TA. SWITCHED OVER TO NORCAL APCH. CTLR ASKED US IF WE WERE AT 220 KTS. I SAID NO. HE ACTED LIKE WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN. I ADVISED HIM IT WASN'T IN OUR CLRNC BUT SAID WE COULD SLOW IF NEEDED. HE SAID OK. THE TAILORED ARRS CAUSE ME SOME CONCERN. THEY ARE ABOUT THE MOST COMPLICATED ARRS WE PERFORM; YET WE DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A PRINTED CHART. THERE ARE NUMEROUS ABOVE AND BELOW XING AND SPD RESTRS. IT SHOULD NOT BE DONE WITHOUT A CHART. CREWS GETTING THIS ARR ARE TIRED; HAVING FLOWN ALL NIGHT. THERE IS BIG PROBABILITY OF MAKING AN ERROR WITHOUT BEING ABLE TO SEE THE CHART. TO ME IT IS AS COMPLICATED AS THE LAX CIVET ARR. NONE OF US WOULD DREAM OF PERFORMING THAT ONE WITHOUT A CHART. WHY DO WE DO THE TA WITHOUT ONE. I WAS ON MY BREAK WHEN THE RELIEF PLTS ACCEPTED THE TA. I WOULD HAVE DECLINED IT HAD I BEEN ON THE FLT DECK. ALSO; WE GOT A CHANGE OF APCH (RWY 28R FROM RWY 28L ILS) DURING THE TA. THERE IS NO EASY WAY TO REINSTALL THE APCH WITHOUT LOSING THE ENTIRE TA ROUTING. I THINK IT'S FOOLHARDY TO BE REPROGRAMMING THIS COMPLEX ARR BELOW FL180; ESPECIALLY WITHOUT BENEFIT OF A CHART OR HAVING IT LINE-SELECTABLE IN THE FMC. THIS PROC IS A PLT DEVIATION; OR WORSE; WAITING TO HAPPEN. I WILL NOT ACCEPT ANOTHER TA UNTIL IT IS CHARTED AND/OR LOADED INTO THE DATABASE. CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: REPORTER STATES THE PROCEDURE IS UNCHARTED. THE CREWS ARE SUPPOSED TO REQUEST THE ARRIVAL AND ONCE APPROVED IT IS SENT TO THEM VIA DATALINK AND THEY SUBSEQUENTLY UPLOAD TO THE FMC. VECTORS OFF THE ARRIVAL AND BACK ON CAUSE CONFUSION AS WELL AS APPROACH CHANGES THAT CAUSE THE ROUTING TO DROP FROM THEIR FMC. REPORTER IS HIGHLY CONCERNED WITH THE ISSUANCE OF THIS ARRIVAL TO FATIGUED CREWS.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.