Narrative:

We were holding short of runway 16L at taxiway D. I noted the red stop bar lights though I don't think that I verbalized anything about them at that moment; although I think I mentioned them from the ATIS while taxiing out to the runway. While taxiing out; we made a change in our takeoff plan from first officer takeoff to captain takeoff because the weather was deteriorating below first officer's takeoff minimums. I also had to get a new ATIS while taxiing. I began to wonder if these were the stop bar lights that were controlling or just advisory like the yellow wig wags. After holding only about 30 seconds; the aircraft ahead was cleared for takeoff and we were cleared into position and hold. I acknowledged the clearance and the captain verbalized it. He began to roll and I looked up; saw the red lights still on; and verbalized; 'red stop bar lights; they're on.' about then the nose was crossing the line and the captain said he thought they had to be flashing (like the wig wags). Tower gave no corrections to us and made other communication and then by the time we were lined up on the runway; tower gave us a takeoff clearance. I still was not sure if those had been stop bar lights or not and we discussed it enroute and looked over the commercial chart carefully and determined that they were. I have not seen those in use but once or twice and that was a few years ago. This does bring to mind an unannounced test that sea tower did a couple years ago with the stop bar lights in day-VMC conditions. It was reported that they purposely gave clearances to cross with the lights on and many pilots crossed over the illuminated lights. Both the captain and I were unsure of the stop bar light configuration simply because we have never used them. This serves as a refresher; but maybe putting up posters in the crew rooms would be a good idea. I am particularly concerned about the new procedures on the ground with the new runway opening and all the additional runway crossings that will be required. I have verbalized this with many crewmembers while studying the various information bulletins that have come out. It will also help to have ATC turn off the lights before giving a clearance to enter the runway. From my standpoint; the only two times I have seen the lights in use in sea; ATC has used them incorrectly by giving clearances with them illuminated (previous time was the test mentioned above).callback conversation with reporter revealed the following information: the reporter was heads down as the aircraft initially crossed the stop bar. The captain did not think anything was wrong because they were given a verbal ATC clearance even though the lights were telling them not to cross. The reporter said that he and captain became uncertain after the reporter raised the alarm about what they had done by taxiing across the stop lights. The crew was initially told position and hold then cleared for takeoff. The fact that they received two separate communications from ATC made them certain that they were supposed to be on the runway but at the same time confused them because they were receiving contradictory commands. When at cruise altitude; the crew looked at the flight manuals and discovered that in fact they should not have crossed the line even though cleared to do so. The crew considered this event to be negative training.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: DURING LOW VISIBILITY OPERATIONS USING SMGCS; AN AIRCRAFT WAS CLEARED INTO POSITION AND HOLD; THEN CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF WITH THE STOP BAR LIGHTS ILLUMINATED.

Narrative: WE WERE HOLDING SHORT OF RWY 16L AT TAXIWAY D. I NOTED THE RED STOP BAR LIGHTS THOUGH I DON'T THINK THAT I VERBALIZED ANYTHING ABOUT THEM AT THAT MOMENT; ALTHOUGH I THINK I MENTIONED THEM FROM THE ATIS WHILE TAXIING OUT TO THE RUNWAY. WHILE TAXIING OUT; WE MADE A CHANGE IN OUR TAKEOFF PLAN FROM FO TAKEOFF TO CAPT TAKEOFF BECAUSE THE WEATHER WAS DETERIORATING BELOW FO'S TAKEOFF MINIMUMS. I ALSO HAD TO GET A NEW ATIS WHILE TAXIING. I BEGAN TO WONDER IF THESE WERE THE STOP BAR LIGHTS THAT WERE CONTROLLING OR JUST ADVISORY LIKE THE YELLOW WIG WAGS. AFTER HOLDING ONLY ABOUT 30 SECONDS; THE AIRCRAFT AHEAD WAS CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF AND WE WERE CLEARED INTO POSITION AND HOLD. I ACKNOWLEDGED THE CLEARANCE AND THE CAPTAIN VERBALIZED IT. HE BEGAN TO ROLL AND I LOOKED UP; SAW THE RED LIGHTS STILL ON; AND VERBALIZED; 'RED STOP BAR LIGHTS; THEY'RE ON.' ABOUT THEN THE NOSE WAS CROSSING THE LINE AND THE CAPTAIN SAID HE THOUGHT THEY HAD TO BE FLASHING (LIKE THE WIG WAGS). TOWER GAVE NO CORRECTIONS TO US AND MADE OTHER COMMUNICATION AND THEN BY THE TIME WE WERE LINED UP ON THE RUNWAY; TOWER GAVE US A TAKEOFF CLEARANCE. I STILL WAS NOT SURE IF THOSE HAD BEEN STOP BAR LIGHTS OR NOT AND WE DISCUSSED IT ENROUTE AND LOOKED OVER THE COMMERCIAL CHART CAREFULLY AND DETERMINED THAT THEY WERE. I HAVE NOT SEEN THOSE IN USE BUT ONCE OR TWICE AND THAT WAS A FEW YEARS AGO. THIS DOES BRING TO MIND AN UNANNOUNCED TEST THAT SEA TOWER DID A COUPLE YEARS AGO WITH THE STOP BAR LIGHTS IN DAY-VMC CONDITIONS. IT WAS REPORTED THAT THEY PURPOSELY GAVE CLEARANCES TO CROSS WITH THE LIGHTS ON AND MANY PILOTS CROSSED OVER THE ILLUMINATED LIGHTS. BOTH THE CAPTAIN AND I WERE UNSURE OF THE STOP BAR LIGHT CONFIG SIMPLY BECAUSE WE HAVE NEVER USED THEM. THIS SERVES AS A REFRESHER; BUT MAYBE PUTTING UP POSTERS IN THE CREW ROOMS WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA. I AM PARTICULARLY CONCERNED ABOUT THE NEW PROCEDURES ON THE GROUND WITH THE NEW RUNWAY OPENING AND ALL THE ADDITIONAL RUNWAY CROSSINGS THAT WILL BE REQUIRED. I HAVE VERBALIZED THIS WITH MANY CREWMEMBERS WHILE STUDYING THE VARIOUS INFO BULLETINS THAT HAVE COME OUT. IT WILL ALSO HELP TO HAVE ATC TURN OFF THE LIGHTS BEFORE GIVING A CLEARANCE TO ENTER THE RUNWAY. FROM MY STANDPOINT; THE ONLY TWO TIMES I HAVE SEEN THE LIGHTS IN USE IN SEA; ATC HAS USED THEM INCORRECTLY BY GIVING CLEARANCES WITH THEM ILLUMINATED (PREVIOUS TIME WAS THE TEST MENTIONED ABOVE).CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING INFO: THE REPORTER WAS HEADS DOWN AS THE AIRCRAFT INITIALLY CROSSED THE STOP BAR. THE CAPTAIN DID NOT THINK ANYTHING WAS WRONG BECAUSE THEY WERE GIVEN A VERBAL ATC CLEARANCE EVEN THOUGH THE LIGHTS WERE TELLING THEM NOT TO CROSS. THE REPORTER SAID THAT HE AND CAPTAIN BECAME UNCERTAIN AFTER THE REPORTER RAISED THE ALARM ABOUT WHAT THEY HAD DONE BY TAXIING ACROSS THE STOP LIGHTS. THE CREW WAS INITIALLY TOLD POSITION AND HOLD THEN CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF. THE FACT THAT THEY RECEIVED TWO SEPARATE COMMUNICATIONS FROM ATC MADE THEM CERTAIN THAT THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE RUNWAY BUT AT THE SAME TIME CONFUSED THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE RECEIVING CONTRADICTORY COMMANDS. WHEN AT CRUISE ALTITUDE; THE CREW LOOKED AT THE FLIGHT MANUALS AND DISCOVERED THAT IN FACT THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE CROSSED THE LINE EVEN THOUGH CLEARED TO DO SO. THE CREW CONSIDERED THIS EVENT TO BE NEGATIVE TRAINING.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of May 2009 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.