Narrative:

Many times pilots feel as though they should shake the stick and advise ATC, 'you have the aircraft.' I felt that way on 2/mon/88, and with ATC attempting to fly the aircraft we ran flat up on a widebody transport Y with ATC not advising of its presence and distance and altitude sep questionable. ATC wasn't sure what to do with us then. Allow me to run down the sequence of events. Prior to heyden VOR we were advised to keep the speed up and that we were #2 for den. Nice thought, getting into den west/O multiple vectors/speed restrictions. Moderate turbulence was reported for our descent into den. That, coupled with landing 26 runway, and clearance to descended 'pd' with the 250 KTS at drake removed, we held FL230 to ease any turbulence problems by descending later away from the east slope as far as possible. The large transport does descended well! Not a big deal when we were requested to commence descent some 5 mi earlier than planned, but a later turn to 030 degrees vs the usual 080 degrees gave us the idea that ATC was flying our descent for us. Thus, even though we had indicated several times that we had 26R in sight, our assigned probable runway, we were assigned 080 degrees as we passed through it by a second voice and then 070 degrees M. A change over to another controller yielded a 170 degree M heading for now runway 26L, this followed by a 260 degree heading. The captain then asked approach control what they had in mind for us because a mile or so in front was a widebody transport Y on a left turn to final for 26L also, altitude difference of 500-1000'. ATC advised us to follow the widebody transport Y to, s-turn for spacing. By now we were nearly on top of the LOM. S-turns wouldn't help, a hover would have been great. I said aloud that we needed the right runway or else a go around because this wasn't going to work when the captain requested 26R. The controller granted our request and advised us to s-turn for the landing. Had someone through we might have difficulty descending originally and asked us we would have advised negative. Had we been cleared for the visual to 26R as originally advised prior to all of the vectoring we would have been on the ground, not looking up the exhaust pipes of widebody transport Y. By the way, s-turns were all rogered. Some aircraft have different abilities, some pilots also. If ATC would just advise of their desires and problems we could fly our aircraft to meet the requests or advise we need assistance with altitude, speed, vectoring, etc. This time nothing really big happened, next time?

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: REPORTER DIDN'T LIKE CTLR TECHNIQUE OR SPACING ON VISUAL APCH FOLLOWING A WDB.

Narrative: MANY TIMES PLTS FEEL AS THOUGH THEY SHOULD SHAKE THE STICK AND ADVISE ATC, 'YOU HAVE THE ACFT.' I FELT THAT WAY ON 2/MON/88, AND WITH ATC ATTEMPTING TO FLY THE ACFT WE RAN FLAT UP ON A WDB Y WITH ATC NOT ADVISING OF ITS PRESENCE AND DISTANCE AND ALT SEP QUESTIONABLE. ATC WASN'T SURE WHAT TO DO WITH US THEN. ALLOW ME TO RUN DOWN THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS. PRIOR TO HEYDEN VOR WE WERE ADVISED TO KEEP THE SPD UP AND THAT WE WERE #2 FOR DEN. NICE THOUGHT, GETTING INTO DEN W/O MULTIPLE VECTORS/SPD RESTRICTIONS. MODERATE TURB WAS RPTED FOR OUR DSCNT INTO DEN. THAT, COUPLED WITH LNDG 26 RWY, AND CLRNC TO DESCENDED 'PD' WITH THE 250 KTS AT DRAKE REMOVED, WE HELD FL230 TO EASE ANY TURB PROBS BY DSNDING LATER AWAY FROM THE E SLOPE AS FAR AS POSSIBLE. THE LGT DOES DESCENDED WELL! NOT A BIG DEAL WHEN WE WERE REQUESTED TO COMMENCE DSCNT SOME 5 MI EARLIER THAN PLANNED, BUT A LATER TURN TO 030 DEGS VS THE USUAL 080 DEGS GAVE US THE IDEA THAT ATC WAS FLYING OUR DSCNT FOR US. THUS, EVEN THOUGH WE HAD INDICATED SEVERAL TIMES THAT WE HAD 26R IN SIGHT, OUR ASSIGNED PROBABLE RWY, WE WERE ASSIGNED 080 DEGS AS WE PASSED THROUGH IT BY A SECOND VOICE AND THEN 070 DEGS M. A CHANGE OVER TO ANOTHER CTLR YIELDED A 170 DEG M HDG FOR NOW RWY 26L, THIS FOLLOWED BY A 260 DEG HDG. THE CAPT THEN ASKED APCH CTL WHAT THEY HAD IN MIND FOR US BECAUSE A MILE OR SO IN FRONT WAS A WDB Y ON A LEFT TURN TO FINAL FOR 26L ALSO, ALT DIFFERENCE OF 500-1000'. ATC ADVISED US TO FOLLOW THE WDB Y TO, S-TURN FOR SPACING. BY NOW WE WERE NEARLY ON TOP OF THE LOM. S-TURNS WOULDN'T HELP, A HOVER WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT. I SAID ALOUD THAT WE NEEDED THE RIGHT RWY OR ELSE A GO AROUND BECAUSE THIS WASN'T GOING TO WORK WHEN THE CAPT REQUESTED 26R. THE CTLR GRANTED OUR REQUEST AND ADVISED US TO S-TURN FOR THE LNDG. HAD SOMEONE THROUGH WE MIGHT HAVE DIFFICULTY DSNDING ORIGINALLY AND ASKED US WE WOULD HAVE ADVISED NEGATIVE. HAD WE BEEN CLRED FOR THE VISUAL TO 26R AS ORIGINALLY ADVISED PRIOR TO ALL OF THE VECTORING WE WOULD HAVE BEEN ON THE GND, NOT LOOKING UP THE EXHAUST PIPES OF WDB Y. BY THE WAY, S-TURNS WERE ALL ROGERED. SOME ACFT HAVE DIFFERENT ABILITIES, SOME PLTS ALSO. IF ATC WOULD JUST ADVISE OF THEIR DESIRES AND PROBS WE COULD FLY OUR ACFT TO MEET THE REQUESTS OR ADVISE WE NEED ASSISTANCE WITH ALT, SPD, VECTORING, ETC. THIS TIME NOTHING REALLY BIG HAPPENED, NEXT TIME?

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.