37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 828487 |
Time | |
Date | 200903 |
Local Time Of Day | 1801-2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | DCA.Airport |
State Reference | DC |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Night |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | B737 Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Initial Approach |
Route In Use | Visual Approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Dash 8 Series Undifferentiated or Other Model |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Initial Approach |
Route In Use | Visual Approach |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Qualification | Flight Crew Air Transport Pilot (ATP) |
Person 2 | |
Function | Local |
Events | |
Anomaly | Conflict Ground Conflict Critical Deviation - Procedural Clearance |
Narrative:
Dca was landing to the north using the mount vernon visual approach. We joined the final at about 15 miles with 2 airplanes on the final in front of us; each about 6 miles apart. This is the normal visual setup at reagan. They launch 1 departure between each arrival with this spacing. At about 6 miles out; approach informed us that we would have a dash 8 joining the final just behind us and to our right (east). He would land on runway 33 after we landed on runway 1. We observed the traffic on the TCAS and visually. He formed up off our right wing at our 3-4 o'clock position and about 1 1/2 miles. The next closest plane behind us was 9 miles back; so we expected the dash 8 to slow and go a couple miles behind us. He didn't seem to slow though and stayed right with us. At about 600 ft AGL; the tower told him to slow to his final approach speed. The tower shouldn't have had to tell him this. It was obvious that you need a couple miles spacing when landing on intersecting runways. He should have figured this out for himself. We started getting concerned at this point. We didn't feel like there would be enough separation at the intersection. When we were at about 100 ft AGL; the tower told the dash 8 crew to do an s-turn to the right to allow more separation. It was dark and I couldn't see if he did one or how large it was; but we were definitely uncomfortable at this point. We landed and as we passed taxiway M; the tower came on the radio with a rushed transmission asking us if we could hold short of runway 33. At that point; we were within about 1;500 ft of the intersection and rushing up on it. I answered honestly by saying 'maybe.' at that weight in our airplane; we had about a 50% chance of getting it stopped prior to the intersection. The tower immediately instructed the dash 8 to go around. We hit the brakes hard and actually did barely turn on taxiway north short of runway 33. As we cleared the runway; the dash 8 went by us on the go-around down runway 33. Because of the geometry of the situation; I was left believing he did little to no s-turn. I am concerned with a couple of things about this operation. The first and foremost is the dash 8 crew's lack of understanding of the subject of runway spacing on final. I don't know if they thought it was a race or just honestly are so inexperienced that they think 2 airplanes can land on intersecting runways with a 1/2 mile separation in the absence of a lahso procedure. The second is the tower being willing to stick with this operation if we had been sure of holding short of runway 33. If we had been significantly lighter or had a strong headwind; I would have answered in the affirmative when asked if we could hold short of the intersection of runway 33. But all this would have done is scared the passengers on the right side of my aircraft as well as the passengers on the left side of his aircraft. They would have been treated to the incredibly uncomfortable vision of 2 airplanes landing simultaneously on intersecting runways leading to an apparent catastrophe at the intersection. Only after the fact would they realize that I was able to slow and turn a couple of feet before the intersection. There was plenty of room behind us that the dash could have moved into. When turning to final; he didn't need to turn right on our wing. He could have turned in 2 miles behind us and everything would have worked out fine. We would have either turned short of the intersection or rolled safely through it while he was on short final. With the lack of experience in the cockpits of some of the commuter airplanes in the industry; it just doesn't pay to try anything unusual.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: B737 Captain on visual approach to Runway 1 at DCA reports conflict with Dash on visual to Runway 33. Dash crew commences approach abeam B737 and never slows; resulting in Tower issuing a go-around to the Dash crew.
Narrative: DCA was landing to the north using the Mount Vernon visual approach. We joined the final at about 15 miles with 2 airplanes on the final in front of us; each about 6 miles apart. This is the normal visual setup at Reagan. They launch 1 departure between each arrival with this spacing. At about 6 miles out; Approach informed us that we would have a Dash 8 joining the final just behind us and to our right (east). He would land on Runway 33 after we landed on Runway 1. We observed the traffic on the TCAS and visually. He formed up off our right wing at our 3-4 o'clock position and about 1 1/2 miles. The next closest plane behind us was 9 miles back; so we expected the Dash 8 to slow and go a couple miles behind us. He didn't seem to slow though and stayed right with us. At about 600 FT AGL; the Tower told him to slow to his final approach speed. The Tower shouldn't have had to tell him this. It was obvious that you need a couple miles spacing when landing on intersecting runways. He should have figured this out for himself. We started getting concerned at this point. We didn't feel like there would be enough separation at the intersection. When we were at about 100 FT AGL; the Tower told the Dash 8 crew to do an S-turn to the right to allow more separation. It was dark and I couldn't see if he did one or how large it was; but we were definitely uncomfortable at this point. We landed and as we passed Taxiway M; the Tower came on the radio with a rushed transmission asking us if we could hold short of Runway 33. At that point; we were within about 1;500 FT of the intersection and rushing up on it. I answered honestly by saying 'maybe.' At that weight in our airplane; we had about a 50% chance of getting it stopped prior to the intersection. The Tower immediately instructed the Dash 8 to go around. We hit the brakes hard and actually did barely turn on Taxiway N short of Runway 33. As we cleared the runway; the Dash 8 went by us on the go-around down Runway 33. Because of the geometry of the situation; I was left believing he did little to no S-turn. I am concerned with a couple of things about this operation. The first and foremost is the Dash 8 crew's lack of understanding of the subject of runway spacing on final. I don't know if they thought it was a race or just honestly are so inexperienced that they think 2 airplanes can land on intersecting runways with a 1/2 mile separation in the absence of a LAHSO procedure. The second is the Tower being willing to stick with this operation if we had been sure of holding short of Runway 33. If we had been significantly lighter or had a strong headwind; I would have answered in the affirmative when asked if we could hold short of the intersection of Runway 33. But all this would have done is scared the passengers on the right side of my aircraft as well as the passengers on the left side of his aircraft. They would have been treated to the incredibly uncomfortable vision of 2 airplanes landing simultaneously on intersecting runways leading to an apparent catastrophe at the intersection. Only after the fact would they realize that I was able to slow and turn a couple of feet before the intersection. There was plenty of room behind us that the Dash could have moved into. When turning to final; he didn't need to turn right on our wing. He could have turned in 2 miles behind us and everything would have worked out fine. We would have either turned short of the intersection or rolled safely through it while he was on short final. With the lack of experience in the cockpits of some of the commuter airplanes in the industry; it just doesn't pay to try anything unusual.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.