37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 844840 |
Time | |
Date | 200907 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | DTW.Airport |
State Reference | MI |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | SF 340B |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Route In Use | SID Palace 3 |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Fighter |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 91 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Person 1 | |
Function | Pilot Not Flying First Officer |
Qualification | Flight Crew Commercial |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 23 Flight Crew Total 1300 Flight Crew Type 700 |
Person 2 | |
Function | Pilot Flying Captain |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 23 Flight Crew Total 2500 Flight Crew Type 975 |
Events | |
Anomaly | Aircraft Equipment Problem Less Severe Conflict Airborne Conflict Deviation - Procedural Other / Unknown |
Miss Distance | Vertical 200 |
Narrative:
While in the climb several minutes after being handed off to detroit departure the controller pointed out grumman hell cat traffic at our 3 o'clock. At that time we had the traffic in sight and continued to climb to our assigned altitude of 7000 ft on the palace three departure. After acknowledging the traffic we observed the traffic began to close the distance with our aircraft. At the time our TCAS was deferred so we had no information on exact distance or altitude of the other traffic but we could tell that he was beginning to move to a position that myself and the captain felt was an unsafe distance from our aircraft. At that time I contacted ATC again expressing our concern and informed them that the aircraft was beginning to get dangerously close to our aircraft. We then immediately informed the controller that we would like to climb and we were then given a clearance to 9000 ft. It was at this time that we observed the hellcat begin to climb with us and proceed even closer to our aircraft. At this time I once again let ATC know that the aircraft was moving even closer; the controller quarried the hellcat as to weather he had visual on us and the pilot of the hellcat replied that he did have us in sight. It was at this time that the hellcat then proceed to cross under our aircraft at a distance of no farther than 200 ft below us; a distance that we both felt would have resulted in a RA had the TCAS not been deferred. At that time the captain performed an even more aggressive climb to avoid a potential collision. The hellcat then passed under us and proceeded on course without further incident. After the aircraft passed we did inform ATC that the aircraft had passed under us at about 200 ft at which time the controller let us know that there was nothing he could do being that the hellcat was VFR and we both reported the traffic in sight.I feel that this event occurred due to the fact that the pilot of the hellcat intentionally maneuvered his aircraft into a dangerously close position to our aircraft. Had the hellcat pilot not begun his climb and waited for us to get a safe distance from him before maneuvering underneath there would have been no incident. With the hellcat pilot being under VFR and not on an IFR assigned altitude or course it would have been very easy for him to maintain a safe distance from our aircraft.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SF340 flight crew reports conflict with Grumman F6F at 7000 FT during the Palace 3 departure from DTW. Each aircraft reported the other in sight but the F6F pilot intentionally maneuvered to pass 200 FT below the SF340 before diverging.
Narrative: While in the climb several minutes after being handed off to Detroit Departure the Controller pointed out Grumman Hell Cat traffic at our 3 o'clock. At that time we had the traffic in sight and continued to climb to our assigned altitude of 7000 FT on the Palace Three Departure. After acknowledging the traffic we observed the traffic began to close the distance with our aircraft. At the time our TCAS was deferred so we had no information on exact distance or altitude of the other traffic but we could tell that he was beginning to move to a position that myself and the captain felt was an unsafe distance from our aircraft. At that time I contacted ATC again expressing our concern and informed them that the aircraft was beginning to get dangerously close to our aircraft. We then immediately informed the Controller that we would like to climb and we were then given a clearance to 9000 FT. It was at this time that we observed the Hellcat begin to climb with us and proceed even closer to our aircraft. At this time I once again let ATC know that the aircraft was moving even closer; the controller quarried the Hellcat as to weather he had visual on us and the pilot of the Hellcat replied that he did have us in sight. It was at this time that the Hellcat then proceed to cross under our aircraft at a distance of no farther than 200 FT below us; a distance that we both felt would have resulted in a RA had the TCAS not been deferred. At that time the captain performed an even more aggressive climb to avoid a potential collision. The Hellcat then passed under us and proceeded on course without further incident. After the aircraft passed we did inform ATC that the aircraft had passed under us at about 200 FT at which time the controller let us know that there was nothing he could do being that the Hellcat was VFR and we both reported the traffic in sight.I feel that this event occurred due to the fact that the pilot of the Hellcat intentionally maneuvered his aircraft into a dangerously close position to our aircraft. Had the Hellcat pilot not begun his climb and waited for us to get a safe distance from him before maneuvering underneath there would have been no incident. With the Hellcat pilot being under VFR and not on an IFR assigned altitude or course it would have been very easy for him to maintain a safe distance from our aircraft.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.