37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 846775 |
Time | |
Date | 200908 |
Local Time Of Day | 0601-1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | LAX.Airport |
State Reference | CA |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Climb |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Commercial Fixed Wing |
Operating Under FAR Part | Part 121 |
Flight Phase | Takeoff |
Person 1 | |
Function | First Officer Pilot Not Flying |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 274 Flight Crew Type 4300 |
Person 2 | |
Function | Captain Pilot Flying |
Experience | Flight Crew Last 90 Days 202 Flight Crew Type 12000 |
Events | |
Anomaly | Conflict Airborne Conflict Deviation - Track / Heading All Types |
Narrative:
We were given position and hold 24L at lax. Tower asked if we had air carrier Y departing 25R in sight. I told him that we did not. He then gave us a takeoff clearance. I read back the clearance and told him that we now have the traffic in sight. He then asked us to maintain visual separation. After switching to departure and receiving a climb clearance to 13;000; we continued the climb. Passing around 5000 ft; departure gave the preceding air carrier Y a turn that would cross our departure path. I had lost sight of that aircraft under our nose; but the captain still had visual. It appeared to him that; given our close proximity (approximately 2.5 miles on the TCAS display); we may have a loss of separation and possible safety concern. As the captain began to deviate from our departure heading; I asked departure for another heading to avoid a conflict. He told us that we were still 3 miles in trail (with no conflict) and to ask for the heading before turning. We explained that from our vantage point (and very close proximity); a conflict could have easily happened. Air carrier Y continued its turn to the north and we continued our straight out climb with no conflict. I understand that ATC gives clearances with the information they have on their radar scopes and that info is very accurate. I also believe that it is ultimately our responsibility as pilots for the safe conduct of our flight. With a visual separation clearance; it was our responsibility to avoid hitting the preceding aircraft and I believe we did exactly that.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: Air carrier departing LAX Runway 24L was instructed to maintain visual separation from a 25R departure; elected to turn from assigned heading to secure separation and was questioned by ATC.
Narrative: We were given position and hold 24L at LAX. Tower asked if we had Air Carrier Y departing 25R in sight. I told him that we did not. He then gave us a takeoff clearance. I read back the clearance and told him that we now have the traffic in sight. He then asked us to maintain visual separation. After switching to Departure and receiving a climb clearance to 13;000; we continued the climb. Passing around 5000 ft; Departure gave the preceding Air Carrier Y a turn that would cross our departure path. I had lost sight of that aircraft under our nose; but the Captain still had visual. It appeared to him that; given our close proximity (approximately 2.5 miles on the TCAS display); we may have a loss of separation and possible safety concern. As the Captain began to deviate from our departure heading; I asked Departure for another heading to avoid a conflict. He told us that we were still 3 miles in trail (with no conflict) and to ask for the heading BEFORE turning. We explained that from our vantage point (and very close proximity); a conflict could have easily happened. Air Carrier Y continued its turn to the north and we continued our straight out climb with no conflict. I understand that ATC gives clearances with the information they have on their radar scopes and that info is very accurate. I also believe that it is ultimately our responsibility as Pilots for the safe conduct of our flight. With a visual separation clearance; it was our responsibility to avoid hitting the preceding aircraft and I believe we did exactly that.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.