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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 84811 |
Time | |
Date | 198803 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 0601 To 1200 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : mco |
State Reference | FL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 1700 msl bound upper : 2300 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : mco |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Flight Phase | descent : approach |
Route In Use | approach : straight in |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp pilot : cfi pilot : flight engineer |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 190 flight time total : 20000 flight time type : 2500 |
ASRS Report | 84811 |
Person 2 | |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : commercial |
Events | |
Anomaly | altitude deviation : crossing restriction not met non adherence other other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other other : unspecified |
Resolutory Action | none taken : detected after the fact |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Situations | |
ATC Facility | procedure or policy : unspecified |
Narrative:
Arrived mco airport at approximately XA20Z, mar 1988, downwind west for runway 18 left/right at 6000'. Under the control of mco approach control. Slowed to approximately 210 KTS, but approach requested us to speed up due to traffic. He also added that we still had 20 mile to go because of many arrivals. Accelerated to 250 KTS, but were turned to the airport after only 14 miles making us too high and too fast to land on runway 18L. Requested a left 360 degree turn to re-enter traffic pattern. Not possible because of other arrivals so we turned northbound and climbed to 1500' and finally to 3000'. We were back with mco approach control. Flew approximately 19 mile north of orl VOR and then vectored back south to intercept the VOR DME runway 18L approach with restrictions to maintain 3000' until 5 NM north of orl VOR. Mco airport in sight prior to orl 5.0 DME and obtained a visual approach to runway 18L. We maintained 3000' until orl 4.0 DME and then descended on the runway 18L VASI. Switched to tower frequency 1 to 2 mile north of orl VOR and landed mco normally. Cleared runway 18L and switched to mco ground control who cleared us to gate and then apologized for the mix-up on arrival and then stated that he had received a call from the tower saying that we had crossed the orl VOR at approximately 1700' MSL and we should have been at 2300'. I stated that we were on a visual approach, but he said that did not release us from the crossing restriction. I thanked him for the information. Approximately 45 min later I phoned the mco approach control and talked with the on-duty supervisor. I explained that there had been some confusion on our arrival and I was attempting to find the details of our situation. He first explained that the call from the tower was actually from orlando executive airport which is co-located with orl VOR. He also explained that mco approach has agreement to cross all mco IFR arrivals over executive at 2300' MSL and VFR arrivals at 2600' MSL. I explained about being on a visual approach and he said I should have received the crossing restriction. I conferred with my first officer and we both agreed that we had not received the restriction. We descended on the runway 18L VASI. I thanked him for the information and said I would pass it on to our company to hopefully avoid the problem in the future. I also asked if further action was necessary on my part. He said no. The conversation was very helpful and constructive. Observations: confusion because of go-around on both pilots and controllers parts. Confusion between VOR approach and visual approach on both pilots and controllers parts. No warning of crossing restriction over orl VOR even though our mode C showed us below 2600' approaching the orl VOR. Fatigue on pilots' part after an all night flight and a long daytime flight the prior day. No knowledge of crossing restriction on pilots part (see approach plates). Suggestions: better communications between pilots and controllers. I felt this was accomplished by the phone conversation with the approach control supervisor. Publish a visual approach procedure with crossing restrictions over executive airport.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR MLG ATC HANDLING AND DESCENT BELOW CROSSING RESTRICTION IN LETTER OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN ARTS.
Narrative: ARRIVED MCO ARPT AT APPROX XA20Z, MAR 1988, DOWNWIND WEST FOR RWY 18 L/R AT 6000'. UNDER THE CTL OF MCO APCH CTL. SLOWED TO APPROX 210 KTS, BUT APCH REQUESTED US TO SPEED UP DUE TO TFC. HE ALSO ADDED THAT WE STILL HAD 20 MILE TO GO BECAUSE OF MANY ARRIVALS. ACCELERATED TO 250 KTS, BUT WERE TURNED TO THE ARPT AFTER ONLY 14 MILES MAKING US TOO HIGH AND TOO FAST TO LAND ON RWY 18L. REQUESTED A LEFT 360 DEG TURN TO RE-ENTER TFC PATTERN. NOT POSSIBLE BECAUSE OF OTHER ARRIVALS SO WE TURNED NBOUND AND CLIMBED TO 1500' AND FINALLY TO 3000'. WE WERE BACK WITH MCO APCH CTL. FLEW APPROX 19 MILE NORTH OF ORL VOR AND THEN VECTORED BACK SOUTH TO INTERCEPT THE VOR DME RWY 18L APCH WITH RESTRICTIONS TO MAINTAIN 3000' UNTIL 5 NM NORTH OF ORL VOR. MCO ARPT IN SIGHT PRIOR TO ORL 5.0 DME AND OBTAINED A VISUAL APCH TO RWY 18L. WE MAINTAINED 3000' UNTIL ORL 4.0 DME AND THEN DESCENDED ON THE RWY 18L VASI. SWITCHED TO TWR FREQ 1 TO 2 MILE N OF ORL VOR AND LANDED MCO NORMALLY. CLRED RWY 18L AND SWITCHED TO MCO GND CTL WHO CLRED US TO GATE AND THEN APOLOGIZED FOR THE MIX-UP ON ARRIVAL AND THEN STATED THAT HE HAD RECEIVED A CALL FROM THE TWR SAYING THAT WE HAD CROSSED THE ORL VOR AT APPROX 1700' MSL AND WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN AT 2300'. I STATED THAT WE WERE ON A VISUAL APCH, BUT HE SAID THAT DID NOT RELEASE US FROM THE XING RESTRICTION. I THANKED HIM FOR THE INFO. APPROX 45 MIN LATER I PHONED THE MCO APCH CTL AND TALKED WITH THE ON-DUTY SUPERVISOR. I EXPLAINED THAT THERE HAD BEEN SOME CONFUSION ON OUR ARRIVAL AND I WAS ATTEMPTING TO FIND THE DETAILS OF OUR SITUATION. HE FIRST EXPLAINED THAT THE CALL FROM THE TWR WAS ACTUALLY FROM ORLANDO EXECUTIVE ARPT WHICH IS CO-LOCATED WITH ORL VOR. HE ALSO EXPLAINED THAT MCO APCH HAS AGREEMENT TO CROSS ALL MCO IFR ARRIVALS OVER EXECUTIVE AT 2300' MSL AND VFR ARRIVALS AT 2600' MSL. I EXPLAINED ABOUT BEING ON A VISUAL APCH AND HE SAID I SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED THE XING RESTRICTION. I CONFERRED WITH MY FIRST OFFICER AND WE BOTH AGREED THAT WE HAD NOT RECEIVED THE RESTRICTION. WE DESCENDED ON THE RWY 18L VASI. I THANKED HIM FOR THE INFO AND SAID I WOULD PASS IT ON TO OUR COMPANY TO HOPEFULLY AVOID THE PROBLEM IN THE FUTURE. I ALSO ASKED IF FURTHER ACTION WAS NECESSARY ON MY PART. HE SAID NO. THE CONVERSATION WAS VERY HELPFUL AND CONSTRUCTIVE. OBSERVATIONS: CONFUSION BECAUSE OF GO-AROUND ON BOTH PLTS AND CTLRS PARTS. CONFUSION BETWEEN VOR APCH AND VISUAL APCH ON BOTH PLTS AND CTLRS PARTS. NO WARNING OF XING RESTRICTION OVER ORL VOR EVEN THOUGH OUR MODE C SHOWED US BELOW 2600' APCHING THE ORL VOR. FATIGUE ON PLTS' PART AFTER AN ALL NIGHT FLT AND A LONG DAYTIME FLT THE PRIOR DAY. NO KNOWLEDGE OF XING RESTRICTION ON PLTS PART (SEE APCH PLATES). SUGGESTIONS: BETTER COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN PLTS AND CTLRS. I FELT THIS WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE PHONE CONVERSATION WITH THE APCH CTL SUPERVISOR. PUBLISH A VISUAL APCH PROCEDURE WITH XING RESTRICTIONS OVER EXECUTIVE ARPT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.