Narrative:

Captain and I reported to the aircraft at XA00 for a XA41 departure. The weather was clear but cold. Temp at the time was minus 2 degrees celsius; and aircraft had frost on the surface. First thing I did was check-in with vancouver ops; to inquire about deicing; and they informed me that they no longer took care of the deicing operation; and that it was all now done through the airport authority. Ops also said that they would coordinate on their end in making sure we were to be deiced; and that the ramp would watch the deicing by the airport 'very closely'. I then checked in with (deicing); and found it nearly impossible to communicate with the gentleman on the other end. Other airlines were also having trouble hearing the deicing coordinator. After several attempts; deicing said we were on the list for deicing and it would be 10-15 minutes. This was at XA20. Operations was also very helpful; in that they made a phone call on the land line to confirm with deicing/airport operations that we were to be deiced. This was at approximately XA20. We configured the aircraft in anticipation for deicing; and deicing commenced at XA50. We were in contact with our ramp personnel at the gate during the deicing as well. There was some confusion on the ramp in regards to the 'clean aircraft concept'. After yvr deiced the aircraft the first time; ramp had to ask them to do it again because there was still frost on several surfaces of the airplane. The ramper that was speaking to us through the intercom was concerned that the deicers really didn't know what they were doing and weren't doing a complete deicing job. The captain and I were grateful for the ramper's concern and input. The airport deiced us a second time; and once that was completed we reconfigured aircraft for normal operation. In order to get the 'numbers' for the deicing info; I tried calling again; but the radio was unreadable and very congested. I tried calling the deicing man at XB15; and was told to monitor the frequency for the deicing numbers. Only after several radio attempts did I finally get through to the deicing coordinator. The radio was unreadable and full of static. Several attempts were blocked; and the gentleman manning the freq admitted to quite a bit of congestion this morning with deicing. Several other aircraft; were late getting their deicing and deicing numbers. All in all it was a huge mess; and this was for frost only. We finally got our deicing numbers at XB38; and neither I nor the captain understood the numbers itself. Deicing told us 165 liters type I with 25% mixture. We verified all aircraft surfaces were cleaned and proceeded to pushback at XB38; almost 1hr late. Two areas really concerned me; and therefore I submit this report: (1)the experience level of the airport deicers is a safety issue. They had to do it twice because they didn't do it correctly the first time. And this was only frost. Apparently; according to yvr ops; the airport took over the deicing for all airlines just recently. Yvr ops used to deice us; and I never remember having so many issues. (2) the inability to communicate with the deicing coordinator on the listed frequency is also a safety issue. There was too much radio congestion; and the radio was unreadable. It should not take 30 minutes from the time they finish deicing to the time we receive deicing numbers. The holdover times won't allow it. Granted this was frost; but in any other frozen precipitation event that may be encountered in yvr it would be impossible to make a safe departure under the holdover time guidelines.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: Air carrier First Officer experiences difficulties and delays in getting properly deiced by crews provided by CYVR Airport.

Narrative: Captain and I reported to the aircraft at XA00 for a XA41 departure. The weather was clear but cold. Temp at the time was minus 2 degrees Celsius; and aircraft had frost on the surface. First thing I did was check-in with Vancouver Ops; to inquire about deicing; and they informed me that they no longer took care of the deicing operation; and that it was all now done through the Airport Authority. Ops also said that they would coordinate on their end in making sure we were to be deiced; and that the ramp would watch the deicing by the airport 'very closely'. I then checked in with (deicing); and found it nearly impossible to communicate with the gentleman on the other end. Other airlines were also having trouble hearing the deicing coordinator. After several attempts; Deicing said we were on the list for deicing and it would be 10-15 minutes. This was at XA20. Operations was also very helpful; in that they made a phone call on the land line to confirm with Deicing/Airport Operations that we were to be deiced. This was at approximately XA20. We configured the aircraft in anticipation for deicing; and deicing commenced at XA50. We were in contact with our Ramp Personnel at the gate during the deicing as well. There was some confusion on the ramp in regards to the 'clean aircraft concept'. After YVR deiced the aircraft the first time; Ramp had to ask them to do it again because there was still frost on several surfaces of the airplane. The Ramper that was speaking to us through the intercom was concerned that the Deicers really didn't know what they were doing and weren't doing a complete deicing job. The Captain and I were grateful for the Ramper's concern and input. The Airport deiced us a second time; and once that was completed we reconfigured aircraft for normal operation. In order to get the 'numbers' for the deicing info; I tried calling again; but the radio was unreadable and very congested. I tried calling the Deicing Man at XB15; and was told to monitor the frequency for the deicing numbers. Only after several radio attempts did I finally get through to the Deicing Coordinator. The radio was unreadable and full of static. Several attempts were blocked; and the gentleman manning the freq admitted to quite a bit of congestion this morning with deicing. Several other aircraft; were late getting their deicing and deicing numbers. All in all it was a huge mess; and this was for frost only. We finally got our deicing numbers at XB38; and neither I nor the Captain understood the numbers itself. Deicing told us 165 liters Type I with 25% mixture. We verified all aircraft surfaces were cleaned and proceeded to pushback at XB38; almost 1hr late. Two areas really concerned me; and therefore I submit this report: (1)The experience level of the Airport Deicers is a safety issue. They had to do it twice because they didn't do it correctly the first time. And this was only frost. Apparently; according to YVR Ops; the airport took over the deicing for all airlines just recently. YVR Ops used to deice us; and I never remember having so many issues. (2) The inability to communicate with the deicing coordinator on the listed frequency is also a safety issue. There was too much radio congestion; and the radio was unreadable. It should not take 30 minutes from the time they finish deicing to the time we receive deicing numbers. The holdover times won't allow it. Granted this was frost; but in any other frozen precipitation event that may be encountered in YVR it would be impossible to make a safe departure under the holdover time guidelines.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.