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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 88880 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Tue |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : ord |
State Reference | IL |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5000 msl bound upper : 5000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : ord |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 35 flight time total : 2500 flight time type : 4 |
ASRS Report | 88880 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain observation : company check pilot oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 120 flight time total : 13000 flight time type : 120 |
ASRS Report | 89095 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other controllera |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance other |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 6000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
It was my first revenue flight on the widebody transport and the captain was a check airman giving me my IOE. Initial operating experience. Takeoff was normal and we followed departure instructions by turning to a seerly heading, approximately 170 degree, and climbed to 5000'. The captain called departure and was told they had radar contact. We continued on our southeast heading and maintained 5000' for what seemed an excessive period. I mentioned this to the captain and he acknowledged this but also said that they had kept previous aircraft down longer also. We passed over midway airport and continued on our assigned heading and altitude. The captain said he was going to call departure to see when we could get a climb when departure called in an irritated voice asking us where we were and stating he was not picking up our transponder. The captain answered the call and I checked the transponder. The transponder was on and set correctly so I switched transponders and modes. Departure then gave us an immediate turn to 090 degree. In the turn to he told us to check our 2 and 3 O'clock position for traffic. I didn't see anything then but took another look and saw an aircraft at our 4 O'clock position at our altitude. It was hard to pick the traffic out due to the haze and he might have been a conflict had we continued. Departure didn't say anything after that except for handing us off to center after giving us our climb instructions. The captain debriefed the incident the next day on our return to ord to the chief pilot, and I got a message that I should file a NASA report the next week. In my opinion it seemed that the departure controller was trying to pass his mistake of losing track of us onto a bad transponder and onto us the flight crew. We had flown the same aircraft from lax to ord on the previous leg and had no problem with the transponder. Also we had discussed calling him up to see what the delayed climb and southeast heading was for, but he was very busy and having listened to departure traffic ahead of us we 'assumed' it wasn't just 'us' in this situation. Also we had on FAA check airman on board going to vyz, toronto, to give checkrides to pilots flying medium large transport. He was not on headset at the time of the incident so he probably doesn't have much to add.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION RESULT WHEN CTLR DELAYED IN ISSUING CLIMB CLRNC.
Narrative: IT WAS MY FIRST REVENUE FLT ON THE WDB AND THE CAPT WAS A CHECK AIRMAN GIVING ME MY IOE. INITIAL OPERATING EXPERIENCE. TKOF WAS NORMAL AND WE FOLLOWED DEP INSTRUCTIONS BY TURNING TO A SEERLY HEADING, APPROX 170 DEG, AND CLIMBED TO 5000'. THE CAPT CALLED DEP AND WAS TOLD THEY HAD RADAR CONTACT. WE CONTINUED ON OUR SE HEADING AND MAINTAINED 5000' FOR WHAT SEEMED AN EXCESSIVE PERIOD. I MENTIONED THIS TO THE CAPT AND HE ACKNOWLEDGED THIS BUT ALSO SAID THAT THEY HAD KEPT PREVIOUS ACFT DOWN LONGER ALSO. WE PASSED OVER MIDWAY ARPT AND CONTINUED ON OUR ASSIGNED HEADING AND ALT. THE CAPT SAID HE WAS GOING TO CALL DEP TO SEE WHEN WE COULD GET A CLIMB WHEN DEP CALLED IN AN IRRITATED VOICE ASKING US WHERE WE WERE AND STATING HE WAS NOT PICKING UP OUR TRANSPONDER. THE CAPT ANSWERED THE CALL AND I CHECKED THE TRANSPONDER. THE TRANSPONDER WAS ON AND SET CORRECTLY SO I SWITCHED TRANSPONDERS AND MODES. DEP THEN GAVE US AN IMMEDIATE TURN TO 090 DEG. IN THE TURN TO HE TOLD US TO CHECK OUR 2 AND 3 O'CLOCK POSITION FOR TFC. I DIDN'T SEE ANYTHING THEN BUT TOOK ANOTHER LOOK AND SAW AN ACFT AT OUR 4 O'CLOCK POSITION AT OUR ALT. IT WAS HARD TO PICK THE TFC OUT DUE TO THE HAZE AND HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CONFLICT HAD WE CONTINUED. DEP DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING AFTER THAT EXCEPT FOR HANDING US OFF TO CENTER AFTER GIVING US OUR CLIMB INSTRUCTIONS. THE CAPT DEBRIEFED THE INCIDENT THE NEXT DAY ON OUR RETURN TO ORD TO THE CHIEF PLT, AND I GOT A MESSAGE THAT I SHOULD FILE A NASA REPORT THE NEXT WEEK. IN MY OPINION IT SEEMED THAT THE DEP CTLR WAS TRYING TO PASS HIS MISTAKE OF LOSING TRACK OF US ONTO A BAD TRANSPONDER AND ONTO US THE FLT CREW. WE HAD FLOWN THE SAME ACFT FROM LAX TO ORD ON THE PREVIOUS LEG AND HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE TRANSPONDER. ALSO WE HAD DISCUSSED CALLING HIM UP TO SEE WHAT THE DELAYED CLIMB AND SE HEADING WAS FOR, BUT HE WAS VERY BUSY AND HAVING LISTENED TO DEP TFC AHEAD OF US WE 'ASSUMED' IT WASN'T JUST 'US' IN THIS SITUATION. ALSO WE HAD ON FAA CHECK AIRMAN ON BOARD GOING TO VYZ, TORONTO, TO GIVE CHECKRIDES TO PLTS FLYING MLG. HE WAS NOT ON HEADSET AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT SO HE PROBABLY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH TO ADD.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.