Scheduling exceeded 8 in 24 in flag operation and domestic combination.

Attributes
ACN	88922
Time
Date	198806
Day	Mon
Local Time Of Day	1801 To 2400
Place
Locale Reference	airport : msp
State Reference	MN
Altitude	agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0
Aircraft 1
Operator	common carrier : air carrier
Make Model Name	Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng
Navigation In Use	Other
Flight Phase	ground : preflight
Flight Plan	IFR
Person 1
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : captain oversight : pic
Qualification	pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp
ASRS Report	88922
Person 2
Affiliation	company : air carrier
Function	flight crew : first officer
Qualification	pilot : commercial pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer
ASRS Report	88927
Events
Anomaly	other anomaly other
Independent Detector	other flight crewa
Resolutory Action	none taken : anomaly accepted
Consequence	faa : reviewed incident with flight crew
Supplementary
Primary Problem	Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident	other

Narrative:

Flight is scheduled hnl-lax (5 hours, 10 mins), then lax-msp (3 hours, 22 mins). Report time XA20Z, release time XB22Z, or 11+02 on duty and 8 hours, 32 mins flight time. This exceeds the 8 hours in 24 hours rule and is therefore a violation. Company claims that the flight is legal and is considered international in its entirety because the flight number does not change (flight ab both legs). Callback conversation with reporter revealed the following: grievance is in the process of being heard on this issue. Hopes a neutral will rule in the pilot's favor. Same practice from europe has been discontinued and a domicile has been opened in bos. This has been an on-going problem with his company for several yrs. Advised the pilot group is going to report to ASRS on these schedules as a means of protecting themselves. Is concerned the practice will be extended to include other segments east of msp.

Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: SCHEDULING EXCEEDED 8 IN 24 IN FLAG OPERATION AND DOMESTIC COMBINATION.

Narrative: FLT IS SCHEDULED HNL-LAX (5 HRS, 10 MINS), THEN LAX-MSP (3 HRS, 22 MINS). RPT TIME XA20Z, RELEASE TIME XB22Z, OR 11+02 ON DUTY AND 8 HRS, 32 MINS FLT TIME. THIS EXCEEDS THE 8 HRS IN 24 HRS RULE AND IS THEREFORE A VIOLATION. COMPANY CLAIMS THAT THE FLT IS LEGAL AND IS CONSIDERED INTL IN ITS ENTIRETY BECAUSE THE FLT NUMBER DOES NOT CHANGE (FLT AB BOTH LEGS). CALLBACK CONVERSATION WITH RPTR REVEALED THE FOLLOWING: GRIEVANCE IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING HEARD ON THIS ISSUE. HOPES A NEUTRAL WILL RULE IN THE PLT'S FAVOR. SAME PRACTICE FROM EUROPE HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED AND A DOMICILE HAS BEEN OPENED IN BOS. THIS HAS BEEN AN ON-GOING PROB WITH HIS COMPANY FOR SEVERAL YRS. ADVISED THE PLT GROUP IS GOING TO RPT TO ASRS ON THESE SCHEDULES AS A MEANS OF PROTECTING THEMSELVES. IS CONCERNED THE PRACTICE WILL BE EXTENDED TO INCLUDE OTHER SEGMENTS E OF MSP.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.