37000 Feet | Browse and search NASA's Aviation Safety Reporting System |
|
Attributes | |
ACN | 88980 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Thu |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : lax |
State Reference | CA |
Altitude | agl bound lower : 0 agl bound upper : 0 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Widebody, Low Wing, 3 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude ground : preflight |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : flight engineer pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 6000 flight time type : 180 |
ASRS Report | 88980 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe non adherence : far other anomaly other |
Independent Detector | other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | aircraft : equipment problem dissipated |
Consequence | Other |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Aircraft |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation other |
Narrative:
Prior to departing the gate, the F/east noticed that we had no automatic O2 presentation to the passenger if the cabin altitude exceeded 14000'. He knew this when the F/a's told him that we had no reading lights, music or call lights. (They are intermixed in this system.) since we only had a few mins until scheduled departure time, the captain didn't want to take a delay. Since this particular aircraft often fixes itself, he thought that starting the engines and thus changing the electrical power source, it might come back on. There were no other airplanes waiting for takeoff, so we had little time to address this problem when the tower told us to taxi into position and hold. The problem was not yet resolved. The captain felt that we were legal to fly up to 25000' per our MEL. If need be, we could stop for fuel along the way. Prior to taking the runway, I demanded that he show me that we were legal in the MEL. I quickly took the MEL while we taxied onto the runway. It didn't take me long to point out to him that we were not legal to have left the gate west/O calling our maintenance. He elected to continue the flight. I said that we were not legal, but it is his decision. My thinking was that if the problem was not fixed by 20000', I would not allow the climb to continue. I am sure the captain would not either. The problem did fix itself, and the passenger got their automatic system back with a simple generator reset. Sometimes that will jar the system into working. My job as an first officer is to advise the captain when he is in violation. He may elect to do with that information what he wishes. At no time may I allow a dangerous situation to develop. Since we did not climb above 10000' before the problem was solved, there was no danger. Since I repeatedly advised the captain that what he was doing was illegal, I believe that I did my duty. I feel that the captain was using poor judgement in sacrificing our legality for the sake of keeping schedule. What makes me wonder even further what was going on in his head was the fact that we had a deadheading company check airman sitting in the jumpseat watching the whole thing.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: ACR WDB PASSENTER OXYGEN AUTOMATIC PRESENTATION INOPERATIVE AT GATE DEP.
Narrative: PRIOR TO DEPARTING THE GATE, THE F/E NOTICED THAT WE HAD NO AUTOMATIC O2 PRESENTATION TO THE PAX IF THE CABIN ALT EXCEEDED 14000'. HE KNEW THIS WHEN THE F/A'S TOLD HIM THAT WE HAD NO READING LIGHTS, MUSIC OR CALL LIGHTS. (THEY ARE INTERMIXED IN THIS SYS.) SINCE WE ONLY HAD A FEW MINS UNTIL SCHEDULED DEP TIME, THE CAPT DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE A DELAY. SINCE THIS PARTICULAR ACFT OFTEN FIXES ITSELF, HE THOUGHT THAT STARTING THE ENGS AND THUS CHANGING THE ELECTRICAL PWR SOURCE, IT MIGHT COME BACK ON. THERE WERE NO OTHER AIRPLANES WAITING FOR TKOF, SO WE HAD LITTLE TIME TO ADDRESS THIS PROB WHEN THE TWR TOLD US TO TAXI INTO POS AND HOLD. THE PROB WAS NOT YET RESOLVED. THE CAPT FELT THAT WE WERE LEGAL TO FLY UP TO 25000' PER OUR MEL. IF NEED BE, WE COULD STOP FOR FUEL ALONG THE WAY. PRIOR TO TAKING THE RWY, I DEMANDED THAT HE SHOW ME THAT WE WERE LEGAL IN THE MEL. I QUICKLY TOOK THE MEL WHILE WE TAXIED ONTO THE RWY. IT DIDN'T TAKE ME LONG TO POINT OUT TO HIM THAT WE WERE NOT LEGAL TO HAVE LEFT THE GATE W/O CALLING OUR MAINT. HE ELECTED TO CONTINUE THE FLT. I SAID THAT WE WERE NOT LEGAL, BUT IT IS HIS DECISION. MY THINKING WAS THAT IF THE PROB WAS NOT FIXED BY 20000', I WOULD NOT ALLOW THE CLB TO CONTINUE. I AM SURE THE CAPT WOULD NOT EITHER. THE PROB DID FIX ITSELF, AND THE PAX GOT THEIR AUTOMATIC SYS BACK WITH A SIMPLE GENERATOR RESET. SOMETIMES THAT WILL JAR THE SYS INTO WORKING. MY JOB AS AN F/O IS TO ADVISE THE CAPT WHEN HE IS IN VIOLATION. HE MAY ELECT TO DO WITH THAT INFO WHAT HE WISHES. AT NO TIME MAY I ALLOW A DANGEROUS SITUATION TO DEVELOP. SINCE WE DID NOT CLB ABOVE 10000' BEFORE THE PROB WAS SOLVED, THERE WAS NO DANGER. SINCE I REPEATEDLY ADVISED THE CAPT THAT WHAT HE WAS DOING WAS ILLEGAL, I BELIEVE THAT I DID MY DUTY. I FEEL THAT THE CAPT WAS USING POOR JUDGEMENT IN SACRIFICING OUR LEGALITY FOR THE SAKE OF KEEPING SCHEDULE. WHAT MAKES ME WONDER EVEN FURTHER WHAT WAS GOING ON IN HIS HEAD WAS THE FACT THAT WE HAD A DEADHEADING COMPANY CHK AIRMAN SITTING IN THE JUMPSEAT WATCHING THE WHOLE THING.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.