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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 89241 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Sat |
Local Time Of Day | 1201 To 1800 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : bwz |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 8500 msl bound upper : 9000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | Mixed |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zny |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other Other |
Flight Phase | descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Small Aircraft |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | VFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : instrument pilot : flight engineer pilot : commercial pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time total : 15000 |
ASRS Report | 89241 |
Person 2 | |
Function | controller : radar |
Qualification | controller : radar |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : nmac |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | controller : issued new clearance |
Consequence | Other |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 0 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Narrative:
Cleared direct bwz to cross bwz at 7000'. Position near penne intersection (bwz 302/14). Scattered to broken clouds at our altitude. Descending through about 9500' controller called with the following transmission: 'suggest you level off at 9000', you have VFR traffic 12 O'clock indicating 8500'.' I asked if we were still cleared to cross bwz at 7000'. I also questioned the 'suggest.' he then replied, 'I'll tell you what, maintain 9000' and forget the 7000' restriction.' visibility was good, but we were in and out of some clouds and in fact there was a cloud directly ahead of us so that we could not see the traffic. We leveled off at 9000' and I looked down through a hole and saw the traffic, a single engine low wing tan colored pass directly under us at about 8500', about 500' below us. I'm not reporting this as a near miss, but rather to point out the fallacy and possible ramifications of the FAA policy whereby controllers are not required to even report VFR traffic let alone provide sep. I am thankful that this controller did the prudent thing and leveled us off at 9000' because under the flight conditions we had, namely in and out of clouds, had we continued our descent we would definitely have been in a midair or near midair position. If the other aircraft was VFR, it was definitely marginal at the time of this incident.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: CLOSE PROX ACR-LGT GA-SMA. SEE AND AVOID, BUT ARTCC PROVIDED ALT SEPARATION.
Narrative: CLRED DIRECT BWZ TO CROSS BWZ AT 7000'. POS NEAR PENNE INTXN (BWZ 302/14). SCATTERED TO BROKEN CLOUDS AT OUR ALT. DSNDING THROUGH ABOUT 9500' CTLR CALLED WITH THE FOLLOWING XMISSION: 'SUGGEST YOU LEVEL OFF AT 9000', YOU HAVE VFR TFC 12 O'CLOCK INDICATING 8500'.' I ASKED IF WE WERE STILL CLRED TO CROSS BWZ AT 7000'. I ALSO QUESTIONED THE 'SUGGEST.' HE THEN REPLIED, 'I'LL TELL YOU WHAT, MAINTAIN 9000' AND FORGET THE 7000' RESTRICTION.' VIS WAS GOOD, BUT WE WERE IN AND OUT OF SOME CLOUDS AND IN FACT THERE WAS A CLOUD DIRECTLY AHEAD OF US SO THAT WE COULD NOT SEE THE TFC. WE LEVELED OFF AT 9000' AND I LOOKED DOWN THROUGH A HOLE AND SAW THE TFC, A SINGLE ENG LOW WING TAN COLORED PASS DIRECTLY UNDER US AT ABOUT 8500', ABOUT 500' BELOW US. I'M NOT RPTING THIS AS A NEAR MISS, BUT RATHER TO POINT OUT THE FALLACY AND POSSIBLE RAMIFICATIONS OF THE FAA POLICY WHEREBY CTLRS ARE NOT REQUIRED TO EVEN RPT VFR TFC LET ALONE PROVIDE SEP. I AM THANKFUL THAT THIS CTLR DID THE PRUDENT THING AND LEVELED US OFF AT 9000' BECAUSE UNDER THE FLT CONDITIONS WE HAD, NAMELY IN AND OUT OF CLOUDS, HAD WE CONTINUED OUR DSCNT WE WOULD DEFINITELY HAVE BEEN IN A MIDAIR OR NEAR MIDAIR POS. IF THE OTHER ACFT WAS VFR, IT WAS DEFINITELY MARGINAL AT THE TIME OF THIS INCIDENT.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.