Narrative:

On this morning training on over-ocean mid-shift was in progress with the arrivals arriving on runway 6R and departures using runway 25R with a 210 heading at the lax VOR; (basically the beach); to separate the traffic. On this particular morning the trainer (ojti) was standing back talking to other controllers and the trainee was departing aircraft off the south side of the airport without even looking out the window. We were reporting 3 miles visibility with a 600 foot ceiling but at the shoreline it was pretty much socked in. I was getting the arrivals in sight about a 1/2 mile final. I asked if the rules had changed? The front line manager (flm) asked why; I told him I thought if they were not in sight we needed to have 15 miles before we could clear the departure for take-off or have the arrival in sight. He advised me that that is on the same complex; I asked him what type of separation are we using because it's not visual? The other flm agreed with me and asked the ojti what type of separation they were using? The ojti seemed stumped. The other flm jumped in and said they were anticipating visual separation. I asked what if the aircraft lined up for runway 6R is off course or overshoots the final? I was told to drop it. I see this happening time and time again at lax; the newly signed off are training new trainees and they have no clue as to what the rules are or why we do certain things certain ways. They were taught short cuts and the new developmentals make short cuts; in 5 years nobody will know the correct rules. I do believe this is a dangerous operation even when they are visual but in the past when the weather is bad and we have departures we turn the airport around to west traffic. This time there was no incident/accident but if they did over shoot the final and were lost between the frequencies we would have a head on situation that would be catastrophic. All ojtis should know the rules and why things are done. They should be teaching this to their developmentals and explaining why they must be in sight. Another thing I see them do regularly is to clear a helicopter through bravo airspace on the shoreline route with reporting conditions VFR but the field is socked in along the shoreline with heavies rolling. How is a helicopter supposed to maintain visual separation with wake turbulence if they can not even see the aircraft? Another one that stumps the newly signed off ojtis is when you ask them a question. These newly signed off ojtis have never worked smaller facilities and are not aware of wake turbulence or how fast things happen. They happen fast with a cessna going 80 kts and a jet going 140 to 200 kts; it happens alot faster and especially at a head-on situation. I know the FAA is a reaction agency I just don't want to see an accident while I'm there.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: LAX Controller described the questionable application of the opposite direction procedures used during mid shift operations and wake turbulence operations; adding newly certified instructors lack awareness of proper procedures.

Narrative: On this morning training on Over-Ocean mid-shift was in progress with the arrivals arriving on Runway 6R and departures using Runway 25R with a 210 heading at the LAX VOR; (basically the beach); to separate the traffic. On this particular morning the Trainer (OJTI) was standing back talking to other controllers and the Trainee was departing aircraft off the south side of the airport without even looking out the window. We were reporting 3 miles visibility with a 600 foot ceiling but at the shoreline it was pretty much socked in. I was getting the arrivals in sight about a 1/2 mile final. I asked if the rules had changed? The Front Line Manager (FLM) asked why; I told him I thought if they were not in sight we needed to have 15 miles before we could clear the departure for take-off or have the arrival in sight. He advised me that that is on the same complex; I asked him what type of separation are we using because it's not visual? The other FLM agreed with me and asked the OJTI what type of separation they were using? The OJTI seemed stumped. The other FLM jumped in and said they were anticipating visual separation. I asked what if the aircraft lined up for Runway 6R is off course or overshoots the final? I was told to drop it. I see this happening time and time again at LAX; the newly signed off are training new trainees and they have no clue as to what the rules are or why we do certain things certain ways. They were taught short cuts and the new developmentals make short cuts; in 5 years nobody will know the correct rules. I do believe this is a dangerous operation even when they are visual but in the past when the weather is bad and we have departures we turn the airport around to West traffic. This time there was no incident/accident but if they did over shoot the final and were lost between the frequencies we would have a head on situation that would be catastrophic. All OJTIs should know the rules and why things are done. They should be teaching this to their developmentals and explaining why they must be in sight. Another thing I see them do regularly is to clear a helicopter through Bravo airspace on the shoreline route with reporting conditions VFR but the field is socked in along the shoreline with Heavies rolling. How is a helicopter supposed to maintain visual separation with wake turbulence if they can not even see the aircraft? Another one that stumps the newly signed off OJTIs is when you ask them a question. These newly signed off OJTIs have never worked smaller facilities and are not aware of wake turbulence or how fast things happen. They happen fast with a Cessna going 80 kts and a jet going 140 to 200 kts; it happens alot faster and especially at a head-on situation. I know the FAA is a reaction agency I just don't want to see an accident while I'm there.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of April 2012 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.