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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 90156 |
Time | |
Date | 198806 |
Day | Mon |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | atc facility : teb airport : ewr |
State Reference | NJ |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 7000 msl bound upper : 7000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | tracon : n90 artcc : lggg |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Medium Large Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turbojet Eng |
Navigation In Use | Other |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude |
Route In Use | enroute : on vectors |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : atp |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 150 flight time total : 6300 flight time type : 4000 |
ASRS Report | 90156 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | pilot : commercial pilot : flight engineer pilot : instrument pilot : atp pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 180 flight time total : 3500 flight time type : 200 |
ASRS Report | 90301 |
Events | |
Anomaly | conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | other controllera other flight crewa |
Resolutory Action | none taken : anomaly accepted |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 12000 vertical : 0 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | ATC Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Operational Error |
Narrative:
Commercial flight, medium large transport X ewr pvd, on departure with ny departure control, heading 090 degrees on radar vectors with climb clearance to 9000'. We passed another jet (medium large transport Y, I believe) on a reciprocal heading at our altitude that seemed closer than normal. The controller pointed out the traffic at our 2 O'clock and when we queried him on its altitude and range, he said 7000' and 2 mi. We were passing 7000' at the time. No evasive action was necessary. I called the ny TRACON supervisor after landing in pvd to inquire what the normal spacing was on departures. He replied 1000' vertical and 3 NM horizontal. He added that if there was at least 15 degrees divergence of courses, though, that the controller could use less than 3 NM. On a subsequent phone call, he indicated that there would be a preliminary investigation for possible operator error. We were clearly not in a life threatening near collision situation. It surprised us to see a jet so close at our altitude, however, which raised the question of a deviation from normal procedures. If, however, 2 NM was the planned sep, then we are cutting it too close in such a busy area (and it was very busy that evening. We were given 5 turns/altitude changes within 3-4 mins).
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: DEP CTLR CALLED TRAFFIC TO MLG ON OPPOSITE DIRECTION TRAFFIC AT SAME ALT, BUT WITH LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION. OPERATIONAL ERROR.
Narrative: COMMERCIAL FLT, MLG X EWR PVD, ON DEP WITH NY DEP CTL, HDG 090 DEGS ON RADAR VECTORS WITH CLB CLRNC TO 9000'. WE PASSED ANOTHER JET (MLG Y, I BELIEVE) ON A RECIPROCAL HDG AT OUR ALT THAT SEEMED CLOSER THAN NORMAL. THE CTLR POINTED OUT THE TFC AT OUR 2 O'CLOCK AND WHEN WE QUERIED HIM ON ITS ALT AND RANGE, HE SAID 7000' AND 2 MI. WE WERE PASSING 7000' AT THE TIME. NO EVASIVE ACTION WAS NECESSARY. I CALLED THE NY TRACON SUPVR AFTER LNDG IN PVD TO INQUIRE WHAT THE NORMAL SPACING WAS ON DEPS. HE REPLIED 1000' VERT AND 3 NM HORIZ. HE ADDED THAT IF THERE WAS AT LEAST 15 DEGS DIVERGENCE OF COURSES, THOUGH, THAT THE CTLR COULD USE LESS THAN 3 NM. ON A SUBSEQUENT PHONE CALL, HE INDICATED THAT THERE WOULD BE A PRELIMINARY INVESTIGATION FOR POSSIBLE OPERATOR ERROR. WE WERE CLEARLY NOT IN A LIFE THREATENING NEAR COLLISION SITUATION. IT SURPRISED US TO SEE A JET SO CLOSE AT OUR ALT, HOWEVER, WHICH RAISED THE QUESTION OF A DEVIATION FROM NORMAL PROCS. IF, HOWEVER, 2 NM WAS THE PLANNED SEP, THEN WE ARE CUTTING IT TOO CLOSE IN SUCH A BUSY AREA (AND IT WAS VERY BUSY THAT EVENING. WE WERE GIVEN 5 TURNS/ALT CHANGES WITHIN 3-4 MINS).
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.