Narrative:

Near collision on the runway at phx. We were in position holding and controller said, 'air carrier a (X), cleared for takeoff, air carrier B (Y), maintain visual sep from the departing aircraft, he is turning right at the 13 mi DME fix. You're cleared onto the runway, hold in position,' (about a 10-15 second pause) 'air carrier B (Y), you're cleared for takeoff.' we were still on the runway. The sun was about 15 degrees above the horizon--there was no way the following aircraft could have kept us in sight. This is a hazardous procedure which poses the threat of a collision on the runway should the first aircraft abort for any reason. It also poses the threat of a midair collision for a number of reasons. However, this is a common practice at phx, dfw, las and lax--and perhaps other airports with which I am not familiar. When you consider ATC radio frequency congestion these days, this procedure is clearly dangerous. I do not know whether or not this procedure is legal--I should hope not. But, I do know it is a misuse of the letter and intent of visual sep and it is foolish and hazardous. In fact, it is a crime for facility mgrs to wittingly or unwittingly endanger the lives of the pilots and passenger with such hazardous stop gap procedures as this one. The solution is for the ATC facility mgrs to use a little common sense and put safety first. If the DOT, the air traffic area and airline mgrs want greater airport capacity, let them build more runways with better approach facs. If they need more money to do that, they need only to charge more money for the tickets.

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Original NASA ASRS Text

Title: REPORTER PROTESTS THE USE OF VISUAL SEPARATION BETWEEN SUCCESSIVE DEPS.

Narrative: NEAR COLLISION ON THE RWY AT PHX. WE WERE IN POS HOLDING AND CTLR SAID, 'ACR A (X), CLRED FOR TKOF, ACR B (Y), MAINTAIN VISUAL SEP FROM THE DEPARTING ACFT, HE IS TURNING RIGHT AT THE 13 MI DME FIX. YOU'RE CLRED ONTO THE RWY, HOLD IN POS,' (ABOUT A 10-15 SEC PAUSE) 'ACR B (Y), YOU'RE CLRED FOR TKOF.' WE WERE STILL ON THE RWY. THE SUN WAS ABOUT 15 DEGS ABOVE THE HORIZON--THERE WAS NO WAY THE FOLLOWING ACFT COULD HAVE KEPT US IN SIGHT. THIS IS A HAZARDOUS PROC WHICH POSES THE THREAT OF A COLLISION ON THE RWY SHOULD THE FIRST ACFT ABORT FOR ANY REASON. IT ALSO POSES THE THREAT OF A MIDAIR COLLISION FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. HOWEVER, THIS IS A COMMON PRACTICE AT PHX, DFW, LAS AND LAX--AND PERHAPS OTHER ARPTS WITH WHICH I AM NOT FAMILIAR. WHEN YOU CONSIDER ATC RADIO FREQ CONGESTION THESE DAYS, THIS PROC IS CLEARLY DANGEROUS. I DO NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THIS PROC IS LEGAL--I SHOULD HOPE NOT. BUT, I DO KNOW IT IS A MISUSE OF THE LETTER AND INTENT OF VISUAL SEP AND IT IS FOOLISH AND HAZARDOUS. IN FACT, IT IS A CRIME FOR FAC MGRS TO WITTINGLY OR UNWITTINGLY ENDANGER THE LIVES OF THE PLTS AND PAX WITH SUCH HAZARDOUS STOP GAP PROCS AS THIS ONE. THE SOLUTION IS FOR THE ATC FAC MGRS TO USE A LITTLE COMMON SENSE AND PUT SAFETY FIRST. IF THE DOT, THE ATA AND AIRLINE MGRS WANT GREATER ARPT CAPACITY, LET THEM BUILD MORE RWYS WITH BETTER APCH FACS. IF THEY NEED MORE MONEY TO DO THAT, THEY NEED ONLY TO CHARGE MORE MONEY FOR THE TICKETS.

Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.