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|
Attributes | |
ACN | 91238 |
Time | |
Date | 198807 |
Day | Wed |
Local Time Of Day | 1801 To 2400 |
Place | |
Locale Reference | airport : laf |
State Reference | IN |
Altitude | msl bound lower : 5500 msl bound upper : 6000 |
Environment | |
Flight Conditions | VMC |
Light | Daylight |
Aircraft 1 | |
Controlling Facilities | artcc : zid |
Operator | common carrier : air carrier |
Make Model Name | Small Transport, Low Wing, 2 Turboprop Eng |
Flight Phase | climbout : intermediate altitude descent other |
Route In Use | enroute : direct |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Aircraft 2 | |
Make Model Name | Any Unknown or Unlisted Aircraft Manufacturer |
Flight Phase | cruise other |
Flight Plan | IFR |
Person 1 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : captain oversight : pic |
Qualification | pilot : cfi pilot : atp |
Experience | controller non radar : 1 flight time last 90 days : 220 flight time total : 3420 flight time type : 1650 |
ASRS Report | 91238 |
Person 2 | |
Affiliation | company : air carrier |
Function | flight crew : first officer |
Qualification | other other : other pilot : instrument pilot : commercial pilot : cfi |
Experience | flight time last 90 days : 132 flight time total : 1860 flight time type : 77 |
ASRS Report | 91344 |
Events | |
Anomaly | aircraft equipment problem : less severe altitude deviation : overshoot conflict : airborne less severe non adherence : required legal separation |
Independent Detector | atc equipment other atc equipment : unspecified other controllera |
Resolutory Action | other |
Consequence | faa : reviewed incident with flight crew |
Miss Distance | horizontal : 24000 vertical : 500 |
Supplementary | |
Primary Problem | Flight Crew Human Performance |
Air Traffic Incident | Pilot Deviation |
Narrative:
Departing non radar from laf, in, we were handed off to ZID, 128.8, too low to establish radar contact. Then contact was established and we were told to stop at 5000' for crossing traffic at 6000'. While leveling at 5000' the copilot reported the traffic in sight. Then ATC asked if we were assigned 5000'. I observed being 5200' and said we were a little high and going back down. I asked ATC how high he showed us. He said we were 5700', which was way off our reading. Then we got an altimeter setting and comparing we found the captain's reading considerably different than the copilot's with matched settings. Maintenance found altimeter and encoder in error. When I called quality assurance at ZID, they said they only showed 5500'. Contributing factors: altimeter and encoder found in error by maintenance. No altitude alerter. No flight director. Old aircraft, approach 11000 hours airframe time. No autoplt. We don't recall getting an altimeter setting because he didn't originally have us in radar contact. Cold front in area, ATIS and center altimeter setting may have differed. Pilot fatigue. A) flew hard IFR all day along cold front, hands on, no autoplt. B) flew 5.3 hours, 4 approachs, 10 hours duty. C) we were behind all day due to ATC and WX, and later realized we had had breakfast only and that was 6 hours earlier. D) captain reaction time may have been slowed. East) copilot altitude callouts were distracted by traffic scan. A good note, we did have the traffic in sight and there was no conflict. If 135 commuter regulations were as stringent as 121 regulations and altitude alerters and autoplts were required, it may have helped. I think 135 commuter pilots work harder because flight and duty times are longer and we are stuck down in the WX where jets are above WX and away from GA traffic. My aircraft goes 260 KTS true, and I always say the only thing we don't do that the jets do is go faster than 250 KTS above 10000'. Our approach speeds are the same. We do 8-10 legs a day and they do 6. Supplemental information from acn 91344: while scanning for traffic, I called company operations at laf and advised them of our out and off times. At this point we were passing through approximately 3200' MSL. The traffic was located and called at 12:30-1 O'clock, and we were leveling at this time. I acknowledged that we were told to stop at 5000' and at this time my captain took over radio communications with ZID. He made comment that we were a little high and that we were going back down to 5000'. I looked down at my altimeter and at that time we were passing through 5200' MSL. We returned to 5000' assigned altitude and compared altimeters. The captain's altimeter was found to be reading higher than the copilot's and upon arrival at day we asked our maintenance personnel to inspect the aircraft for altimeter problems and a number of other problems. Our mechanic told us that the captain's altimeter was indeed in error.
Original NASA ASRS Text
Title: SMT OVERSHOT ALT ON CLIMBOUT DUE TO ALTIMETER PROBLEM AND HAD LESS THAN STANDARD SEPARATION WITH ANOTHER ACFT. ARTCC RADAR CTLR INTERVENED.
Narrative: DEPARTING NON RADAR FROM LAF, IN, WE WERE HANDED OFF TO ZID, 128.8, TOO LOW TO ESTABLISH RADAR CONTACT. THEN CONTACT WAS ESTABLISHED AND WE WERE TOLD TO STOP AT 5000' FOR XING TFC AT 6000'. WHILE LEVELING AT 5000' THE COPLT RPTED THE TFC IN SIGHT. THEN ATC ASKED IF WE WERE ASSIGNED 5000'. I OBSERVED BEING 5200' AND SAID WE WERE A LITTLE HIGH AND GOING BACK DOWN. I ASKED ATC HOW HIGH HE SHOWED US. HE SAID WE WERE 5700', WHICH WAS WAY OFF OUR READING. THEN WE GOT AN ALTIMETER SETTING AND COMPARING WE FOUND THE CAPT'S READING CONSIDERABLY DIFFERENT THAN THE COPLT'S WITH MATCHED SETTINGS. MAINT FOUND ALTIMETER AND ENCODER IN ERROR. WHEN I CALLED QUALITY ASSURANCE AT ZID, THEY SAID THEY ONLY SHOWED 5500'. CONTRIBUTING FACTORS: ALTIMETER AND ENCODER FOUND IN ERROR BY MAINT. NO ALT ALERTER. NO FLT DIRECTOR. OLD ACFT, APCH 11000 HRS AIRFRAME TIME. NO AUTOPLT. WE DON'T RECALL GETTING AN ALTIMETER SETTING BECAUSE HE DIDN'T ORIGINALLY HAVE US IN RADAR CONTACT. COLD FRONT IN AREA, ATIS AND CENTER ALTIMETER SETTING MAY HAVE DIFFERED. PLT FATIGUE. A) FLEW HARD IFR ALL DAY ALONG COLD FRONT, HANDS ON, NO AUTOPLT. B) FLEW 5.3 HRS, 4 APCHS, 10 HRS DUTY. C) WE WERE BEHIND ALL DAY DUE TO ATC AND WX, AND LATER REALIZED WE HAD HAD BREAKFAST ONLY AND THAT WAS 6 HRS EARLIER. D) CAPT REACTION TIME MAY HAVE BEEN SLOWED. E) COPLT ALT CALLOUTS WERE DISTRACTED BY TFC SCAN. A GOOD NOTE, WE DID HAVE THE TFC IN SIGHT AND THERE WAS NO CONFLICT. IF 135 COMMUTER REGS WERE AS STRINGENT AS 121 REGS AND ALT ALERTERS AND AUTOPLTS WERE REQUIRED, IT MAY HAVE HELPED. I THINK 135 COMMUTER PLTS WORK HARDER BECAUSE FLT AND DUTY TIMES ARE LONGER AND WE ARE STUCK DOWN IN THE WX WHERE JETS ARE ABOVE WX AND AWAY FROM GA TFC. MY ACFT GOES 260 KTS TRUE, AND I ALWAYS SAY THE ONLY THING WE DON'T DO THAT THE JETS DO IS GO FASTER THAN 250 KTS ABOVE 10000'. OUR APCH SPDS ARE THE SAME. WE DO 8-10 LEGS A DAY AND THEY DO 6. SUPPLEMENTAL INFO FROM ACN 91344: WHILE SCANNING FOR TFC, I CALLED COMPANY OPS AT LAF AND ADVISED THEM OF OUR OUT AND OFF TIMES. AT THIS POINT WE WERE PASSING THROUGH APPROX 3200' MSL. THE TFC WAS LOCATED AND CALLED AT 12:30-1 O'CLOCK, AND WE WERE LEVELING AT THIS TIME. I ACKNOWLEDGED THAT WE WERE TOLD TO STOP AT 5000' AND AT THIS TIME MY CAPT TOOK OVER RADIO COMS WITH ZID. HE MADE COMMENT THAT WE WERE A LITTLE HIGH AND THAT WE WERE GOING BACK DOWN TO 5000'. I LOOKED DOWN AT MY ALTIMETER AND AT THAT TIME WE WERE PASSING THROUGH 5200' MSL. WE RETURNED TO 5000' ASSIGNED ALT AND COMPARED ALTIMETERS. THE CAPT'S ALTIMETER WAS FOUND TO BE READING HIGHER THAN THE COPLT'S AND UPON ARR AT DAY WE ASKED OUR MAINT PERSONNEL TO INSPECT THE ACFT FOR ALTIMETER PROBS AND A NUMBER OF OTHER PROBS. OUR MECH TOLD US THAT THE CAPT'S ALTIMETER WAS INDEED IN ERROR.
Data retrieved from NASA's ASRS site as of August 2007 and automatically converted to unabbreviated mixed upper/lowercase text. This report is for informational purposes with no guarantee of accuracy. See NASA's ASRS site for official report.